Juror13

True crime and trial opinions from a layman's perspective

Defense Team #B$

defense team

“As far as I could see people were always conning each other to get what they wanted. We even con ourselves. We talk ourselves into things, you know, we sell ourselves things. When we don’t even need or want, you know, we’re dressing ’em up. We leave out the risk, we leave out the ugly truth.” – Irving Rosenfeld, American Hustle

I want to hear from all of you…

What were the most notable bullshit moments from Oscar’s defense team during trial? 

Here are a few from my list:

1. Oscar screams like a woman. 

2.  Roux comparing Oscar to an abused woman in his closing.

3.  Oscar had Generalized Anxiety Disorder (GAD). 

4.  Dixon, the Geologist. 

5.  Double Taps. 

Ok go… 

Roux

#8Restoration

@lisawJ13

@HiRezLife

58 comments on “Defense Team #B$

  1. Nick van der Leek-Photo
    December 7, 2014

    How about Roux’s meltdown when Burgher described Oscar’s calls for help as ‘a mockery’?

  2. Sara Shahzad Mufti
    December 7, 2014

    1. Oscar is vulnerable and immobile on his stumps
    2. He screams like a woman (not proven, judge just bought it)
    3. There were only 2 people in the house.
    4. Everything Pete van zyl said!
    5. Prof Derman and his startle debacles!
    6. The room was pitch dark, and OP still managed to move around without even tripping!
    7. Defence version of fan/fans
    8. That OP version never changed!
    9. Anything that came out of oldwage’s mouth!
    10. Oscar’s slow burn and abused woman farce!
    11. The boat incident involving NO alcohol and NO speed (lie!!!)

  3. william
    December 7, 2014

    1. A policeman
    – moved both fans, unplugged one of them and plugged in the hair clipper (!?),
    – opened the sliding doors and curtains,
    – switched on the lights,
    – threw the duvet on the floor,
    all before the crime scene photographer took his pics.

    2. 4 people (2 independent couples) were mistaken about hearing a woman screaming.

    3. The judge used Oscar’s distraught state, “even praying to God”, to support her belief that he did not shoot Reeva intentionally.

    4. Oscar looked for Reeva by feeling for her all over the bedroom in the pitch dark with a loaded gun in his hand.

    5. The fact that housekeeper Frank was up and about when the Standers arrived minutes after the shooting but claims to have heard nothing.

    6. Oscar said in his bail application (twice) that he had gone OUT ONTO the balcony to fetch a fan, that’s why he didn’t see Reeva get up. It turns out that he didn’t even set foot (or should that be stump?) on the balcony…..

  4. FrankieUK
    December 7, 2014

    What Burger said was “mockery”. As if OP was mimicking and mocking poor Reeva’s call for help before he shot her.

    Mocking Reeva, as in “Help, help, help”. If you try it yourself, there is a certain voice we can put on if we are mocking in a nasty way and Burger would have recognised that.

    And there is no way a man would scream like a woman, let alone one whose hip had just been shot away. As Burger said, “Blood curdling” and the voice would lift off and go into the stratosphere that would be impossible to duplicate.

    Even a woman would be unlikely to reproduce the voice in scream of fear. Try screaming when you are not terrified and there is no force behind it.

    The trial WAS a mockery and I always believed as OP had brought such kudos to South Africa during the Olympics, the powers that be would not want to put him in jail.

    Now he is in jail and the kudos is gone forever. In that sense he has been punished.

    World wide we need a campaign to raise awareness of domestic violence. And yes, women are violent sometimes, but it is unlikely a woman could beat a man to death or, hit him and break his jaw.

    A British man has been put in prison in France, for beating his girlfriend to death in a hotel. Why do I have a feeling that in SA, the judge would find that as there were no other witnesses, “Murder could not be proven beyond reasonable doubt!”

    There were quite a few BS moments. But perhaps most of all, is culpable homicide.

    • william
      December 7, 2014

      Well said.

      • Nick van der Leek-Photo
        December 7, 2014

        no I don’t think she meant ‘mockery’ in that sense. Oscar shouted help help help after the shots were fired. I think she means mockery in terms of a charade. You follow?

      • FrankieUK
        December 8, 2014

        I follow. But don’t think to agree with you. Mockery in the sense you mean gives the impression of cynicism, which imo, is not what Burger intended.

        Personally, I think she meant Op was mocking Reeva’s calk for help.

      • Nick van der Leek-Photo
        December 8, 2014

        @FrankieUK you do know Burger is an afrikaans speaker, that’s her first language? she doesn’t mean cynicism, she means ‘a performance’.

  5. crackzn
    December 7, 2014

    Roux stated to Mangena that it is the accused version that he fired 2 double taps.
    OP takes the stand and says no, he never fired 2 double taps he fired 4 shots in quick succesion.

  6. Lulu
    December 7, 2014

    Another GREAT question!

    Hands down: Oscar screams like a woman.

    It was fundamental to his story AND completely preposterous!!

    OP’s occasional embarrassingly unsuccessful attempts to reply / emote during Nel’s cross by raising his voice a few octaves were BEYOND cringingly pathetic.

    The only one convinced that OP could masterfully perform the soprano solo, “Adele’s Laughing Song,” from Strauss’ operetta, Die Fledermaus, was Masipa.

    Adele, however wasn’t the one laughing, Roux was

    …because it worked!!

    • Nick van der Leek-Photo
      December 7, 2014

      OP’s occasional embarrassingly unsuccessful attempts to reply / emote during Nel’s cross by raising his voice a few octaves were BEYOND cringingly pathetic. – very good point. I thought he was either coached or had decided himself to use that mewling voice throughout. Would love to know what octave is his default setting now that he’s in jail.

  7. Lorna Kavanagh
    December 7, 2014

    The defence witnesses were not good expert witnesses in my view. I was not at all impressed by them. Michelle Burger was strong and i feel her testimony about “blood curdling screams” convinced me. She said she still re-lives that in her mind. The defence theory that it was OP screaming … ?? Doesn’t cut it for me. He may well have screamed but not ” blood curdling “.

  8. Lorna Kavanagh
    December 7, 2014

    I would love to know what the five “ear” witnesses think of their testimony being discarded by the judge?

    • juror13
      December 7, 2014

      I’m guessing it’s #1 on their bullshit list… Being blown off by Masipa.

      • Nick van der Leek-Photo
        December 7, 2014

        I’d also be very curious to think what they think, especially when it was tough to come forward in the first place.

  9. miktal
    December 7, 2014

    You mentioned Dixon, but he was just an idiot and in a way, had an innocence about him that I found genuine. He wasn’t trying to mislead the court IMO, he was simply incompetent. The witnesses that made me angry, were clearly biased and sold their integrity were:-

    Woolie, as straight faced as you like, telling the court that he couldn’t match bullet hole B with mark E, when Mangena did it in a few minutes. Then taking Dixon out for a beer and discussing the case!! (Yes you did!)

    Apologies if I`m offending the female members here, but Vorster and Vergeer…….total whores. NOTHING Vorster diagnosed about OP was correct, testimony bought and paid for simple as that. And she was supposed to be some kind of leading expert in her field. In fact it wasn’t even a diagnosis in the true sense of the word, she simply believed everything OP said and drew conclusions from that!
    The less said about Annette Vergeer the better, Christ she made me angry! She should stick to her part time job of adding voices to blow up dolls.
    No point in even mentioning Van Zyl (sp?) OP`s agent was always going to lie and be evasive, he didn’t let anyone down
    I cant believe that Masipa was actually quoting Professor Derman in her summation, when his bias was clear from the start.
    “I don’t want to answer Mr Nel`s question because I don’t like where its leading”????
    “I put forward my “startle theory” but I don’t want to explain how it works or how I drew my conclusions”????

    I can understand that even experts can be nervous and unsettled on the stand, but I don’t see why this should be used to explain their bias.

    • juror13
      December 7, 2014

      Hey Miktal, thx for the laugh 🙂
      I have to disagree on Dixon though. Anybody who is hired & paid by a defense team is not as innocent as you think. He obviously knew the BS he was dealing with and he did it anyway. He seemed a little star struck to me which is completely disengenuous when you’re testifying in court.

  10. Lorna Kavanagh
    December 7, 2014

    On a lighter note in an otherwise very sad case .. Roux to Van der merwe – ” so could you hear sounds like a hyena or Jackal? No, said VDM ” I have only ever heard a lion.” (matter of factly.)
    ” LION !! “said BR in surprise.

    • juror13
      December 7, 2014

      Haha… Roux and Oldwage should have their own dedicated cartoon strip

  11. FrankieUK
    December 7, 2014

    Michelle Burger knows what she heard and it will live with her forever.

    I live in a very good part of London and once heard a woman crying in a domestic attack and have never forgotten her sobs.

    Roux did everything to spoil her testimony. He asked her how she wanted to be addressed and when she said Dr Burger, he then went on to address her as Mrs Burger. IMO, to undermine her status.

  12. Nick van der Leek-Photo
    December 7, 2014

    interesting point.

  13. crackzn
    December 7, 2014

    If I ask you whether or not you moved a fan to a certain position in your bedroom whether you or you didn’t you would state it as a fact and with conviction because you did it yourself and witnessed it first hand.

    But when nel asked OP whether he moved the fan to a certain position he said he cant say because he hasn’t got a measurement of the cable or the carpet??????

    He’s fkn liar (excuse me) !!!!!!!!!!!!

    One thing I havnt figured out yet where Reeva jeans lying outside the TOILET window on the floor.
    Used maybe to wave and attract attention?

    • juror13
      December 7, 2014

      No need to apologize for swearing.. This case inspires some good ones 🙂 I tend to think the jeans were thrown out in the midst of a fight. Jeans outside, jeans thrown on the bedroom floor… Seems like they were tossed in anger, IMO

      • crackzn
        December 7, 2014

        Definitely, not just there for no reason.
        Hard to accept we may never know the truth of that night and in particular what triggered it all off.

  14. Sara Shahzad Mufti
    December 7, 2014

    I would like to understand from those people/lawyers who believe Masipa’s verdict was sound! How? Really, I would like to understand their explanation!

    I can’t help thinking Reeva never had her phone, hence no call! OP had locked her in the toilet(key found outside and not possible to lean into toilet to retrieve key!!). OP then Went on a mad shouting rampage, totally uncontrollable! Reeva was screaming because she was trapped, couldn’t get out or help. Plus she couldn’t see what this lunatic was doing, all she could hear were bashing sounds(tiles/bath). She screamed and screamed! He kept telling her to shut up she continued….he snapped and got his gun and shot her! No blood on key outside toilet door either!
    Too far fetched?

    • juror13
      December 7, 2014

      No… Nothing is too far fetched in this circus! She was certainly terrified, that we know.

    • Alfred
      December 8, 2014

      Hi! I always thought that she didn’t had her phone with her, OP put it there after he shot her, part of his subterfudge. “Reeva, call the police!” …
      The horror of the situation is unimaginable, and there is no way he’s not paying for the cruelty with which he killed her.

  15. Ruthy Creed
    December 7, 2014

    How about having the cricket bat banging sound like gunshots?
    The judge accepted that as it fit into OP’s version and the timeline of the calls. I think the most lies were found in OP”s testimony as Nel described them in a ‘dozen’.

  16. Mandy Cuffley Nel
    December 8, 2014

    My opinion is that Pistorius has an unusual condition, and there are a few more South Africans with the same.

    ‘AAAAA’ is the acronym ‘Anger Arrogance Athleticism Accelerator Attitude’. Throw in bad company, an untouchable uncle, beautiful women, guns, fast cars, alcohol, fame, fortune, and somewhere along the line sh*t is going to happen.”

    *Yes, this is a repeat!*

  17. aileen3133
    December 8, 2014

    I cannot believe that Reeva did not scream out when his by the first bullet let alone any of the others. I also agree with Mandy.

  18. miktal
    December 8, 2014

    Nel: “did Reeva scream when you shot her?”
    OP: “No”
    Nel: “Are you sure?”
    OP: “Yes, at no point did Reeva scream”
    Nel: “how do you know?”
    OP:”………..Well, my ears were ringing…
    Nel: “Exactly! How could you preclude the fact that she was screaming if you couldn’t hear. You`re just saying that”

    BOOM!!

    Four witnesses are 100% sure she screamed, a respected doctor say she screamed, but the above is apparently enough to dismiss both as circumstantial.

    • Jason
      December 9, 2014

      There were just too many of these reductio ad absurdums. The only reasonable conclusion that one can draw from them was that a) OP was lying and b) this was a “reconstructed” version (perhaps learnt by heart – he had plenty of time to consult, build a mock-up of the scene, and then decide upon a story).

      Someone should really collect together and list all these reductions to absurdity snippets – perhaps in a single chapter entitled. Reductions to Absurdity under Cross Examination (if it hasn’t already been done). Miktal we have highlighted so many of them over the course of the trial but it seems to have been ignored – hence the need to list them all together & publish.

      Three more – 1) he said he had his arms bent at the elbow in front of him when the gun fired four times without him aiming or reaiming. That is physically impossible because of the strong recoil you get and the effect it has on bent arms configuration. Unfortunately Nel didn’t pick up on it 2) The shooting on the motorway and OP not recalling who drove him home 3) the answer OP gave when Nel pointed out he would have seen in his peripheral vision the light from Reeva’s phone as she walked down the corridor and OP was looking at the blue light on the stereo system.

      Lisa and Nick – will you plan to update any of your publications – new editions etc.

  19. miktal
    December 8, 2014

    Just OT, I see Dewani has had his case thrown out.

    I had the mother of all arguments with FOUR Pistorians over on Twitter, who claimed that Nel and his team hadn’t proved their case against OP. I told them that if they hadn’t Masipa could stop it for lack of evidence after Nel rested or even before, and OP wouldn’t have to defend himself. As normal, they wouldn’t have it, so in their bizarre world, the prosecution can fail to prove their case, but you still need to answer for it.

  20. Nick van der Leek-Photo
    December 8, 2014

    good point

  21. Tess
    December 8, 2014

    A little off on the main topic, but stunning decision by another S. African judge! Dewani acquitted?!?!
    I’ll be surprised if there isn’t a protest there like Ferguson here in the US. Historically speaking, protests are what made many nations what they are today, by society saying this is not right!
    Gerrie Nel tried to impart that to Judge Masipa but she would not hear anything that he was warning her about. I often wonder what she thought when she needed armed guards for her protection? Did she not see what society was trying to say? That justice needed to be done or seen to be done as some have stated, neither happened in this case or the Dewani case. Back in my day we had sit-ins, public marches, picketing, rallies, petition drives and the like and some of the “wrongs” in society were changed thankfully. Something is definitely wrong with the justice system and maybe the appeal that Gerrie Nel and his team is putting forward will succeed.

    As far as OP’s defense and defense team, one of my biggest “irks” was Oldwage! I think that man is abhorrent, snobbish, egotistical, pompous and has the most arrogant attitude toward witnesses that I’ve ever seen! The glares, snickers, sneers, laughs and overall demeanor was insulting. At one point he was insulting Gerrie Nel during one of Nel’s cross-examinations. He actually did it a number of times but this one was loud and aggressive. (I think Nel wanted to punch him, i know i did and I’m an old lady, ha!)
    In one of the recent books about the case Oldwage is described as being “…disliked by judges, magistrates, prosecutors and rubs everyone the wrong way..He bullies and walks all over people… If he doesn’t have anyone to fight with, he fights with himself….” Definitely not a nice guy and to me he personified the defense team.
    Tess

  22. Tess
    December 9, 2014

    Okay
    Just when you think it can get any stranger:

    Just saw this disturbing news story
    Oscar could be given bail if STATE wins appeal. Here is the link:

    http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/2014/12/08/oscar-pistorius-could-get-bail-if-state-succeeds-in-application-for-leave-to-appeal

    WHAT?!?!? Yes! and he probably will if it’s Judge Masipa granting it!

  23. Amy
    December 9, 2014

    Exactly what I thought of Oldwage, Tess! I would have loved to wipe the smirks of his stupid, fat face! What an embarrassment he is to any legal team; so pleased no one likes him!
    As for OP possibly getting bail…if so, he’d be well warned to stay in hiding I think!

  24. Lola
    December 9, 2014

    It has to the the “double tap” theory.

    Mr Roux said when Dr Botha was being cross examined, that he was corrected about the double tap after adjournment that day.

    Then during Gerrie Nel’s cross examination of OP, OP says that after the FIRST break that he corrected Mr Roux.

    However during Cpt Magena’s cross exam after that adjournment Roux still says that “they will also say (defence ballistic experts) you don’t need one shot and then 3 shots to cause the injuries, that it is equally consistent with 4 shots on a double tap.”

  25. Lorna Kavanagh
    December 9, 2014

    I feel so sorry for Anni Hindocha ‘s family. He has buggered off to the UK on a first class ticket, Scot free !! It is very disconcerting to see all this chaos in our justice system.
    I also found Oldwage to be pompous and annoying in the extreme.

  26. Todd
    December 10, 2014

    using expert witnesses that really weren’t experts at all

  27. Jason
    December 10, 2014

    Maybe someone can explain the possession of illegal ammo ruling?

    If OP or anyone doesn’t have a weapon that can fire the illegal ammunition they might be in possession of – what is the point of making ammo possession illegal? If it is associated with being in possession of ammo with a view of illegal trade of that ammo then I could understand that. So is that what this law is all about – controlling trade in ammo to prevent the transfer of the ammo to people who would be able to USE the ammo?

  28. miktal
    December 10, 2014

    Actual recorded transcript of the conversation:

    Henke: Oscar, its me, Henke, your father

    OP: Why are you calling ME, I told you don’t ever call ME

    Henke: I was just passing a house that I`1m guessing is yours and I want you to keep my gun ammunition

    Op: What? I`M actually out of the country. What are you talking about?

    Henke: Can I keep my ammunition in your safe?

    OP: You havent spoken to ME in years, we don’t have or want a relationship with ME….

    Henke: Yes, but can I keep my ammunition in your safe

    OP: ….You don’t know what 1`M doing, how the world loves ME and what I`ve achieved in MY life

    Henke: Yes, but can I keep my ammunition in your safe

    OP: …..You were a terrible father who abandoned ME, and more ME and blah, blah, blah, ME and woe is ME

    Henke: Yes, but can I keep my ammunition in your safe

    OP: …The key is under the mat, but I want you to know I still hate ME..I mean you, I hate you.

  29. Pamela
    December 10, 2014

    I will never ever understand how judge masipa accepted pistorius story. It was so obviously untrue. Perhaps justice will be served when the appeal is heard. Juror 13 is a solid voice of reason.

  30. Jason
    December 15, 2014

    The Guy responsible for the Sydney Siege was according to one report on BAIL after being accused of arranging the murder of his ex-wife

    “Monis was charged in November 2013 with being an accessory to the murder of his ex-wife, the Sydney Morning Herald newspaper reported. In April, he was charged with the indecent and sexual assault of a woman in western Sydney in 2002. He was on bail in relation to both cases, it said.”

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-12-15/sydney-cafe-siege-ends-after-police-storm-site-of-hostage-crisis.html

  31. Emma H.
    April 2, 2015

    The funniest moment of the trial for me was when Nel asked Oscar where he heard that former girlfriend, Samantha, and his friend Fresco had communicated with each other (hence both conspired against him regarding the testimony of the gunshot in the car).

    Oscar said someone had told him. Nel asked him who. ‘I can’t remember’. Nel and the whole court laughed, except Masipa and those loyal Pistorians.

    The biggest bullshit for me was Masipa accepting parts of Oscar’s testimony – and not rejecting the whole crock of sh*t for what it was. As Judge Greenland said, she got it wrong and was out of her depth. You could tell Oscar was lying when his lips began moving.

    WHile I’m at it, the biggest other bullshit was the the psychologists not picking up Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Being sorry for what he has done is not the same thing as remorse. The text messages between the two showed how jealous and controlling he was – to disregard this – Reeva’s only voice, was pretty silly.

    Totally agree with @Miktal that Vorster and Vergeer being whores! Funny post.

    • crackzn
      April 2, 2015

      Indeed, like when OP said he couldnt remember who he phined to pick him up at the shopping centre after he was shot at on the highway, he remembers the colour and make of tje vehicle, the route he took and even what lane he was travelling in but not who he phoned to collect as he was to scared to drive?

      He shiuld have got a lofe sentence for murder

      • crackzn
        April 2, 2015

        Excuse the spelling, typing on phone.

      • juror13
        April 3, 2015

        Hey Crack… it’s so good to hear from ya 🙂 How is everything?

      • crackzn
        April 3, 2015

        Hey Lisa,

        All well thanks and you?!

      • miktal
        April 3, 2015

        He also remembered, Crack, that he picked the car up the next day! Apart from this blatant lie, there is no direct evidence to support his heightened fear of crime.

        If I had the time I’d love to go through all of the YouTube videos of the trial and edit together all his lies into one video.

        Like the time Nel asked him where the quilt was last. OP said he remembered it was on the bed as he had to move it to sit down to put his legs on. A very specif and vivid recollection. When Nel pointed out the evidence of it being on the floor, he then said, he cant remember where it was.

  32. Emma H.
    April 7, 2015

    Yes @crackzn, I also agree re the dodgy lying and ‘forgetting’ when he was supposedly shot at in his car. It made me think of my own personal experience and the way the brain works when in a potentially life threatening situation.

    Two men – one with a rifle – came to our door when I was 16. My Mum never paid her bills LOL – typically she wasn’t home to get scared into paying the bill — but that’s another story! I remember EVERYTHING so clearly like it happened yesterday.

    I think it’s a funny story – it doesn’t upset me now. But back then, my brother and I were scared sh*tless. I have never felt so scared in my life – well, maybe when I nearly drowned but I won’t go there. We saw the outline/shadow of a rifle in the high beam lights they left on in their white van. One man hid in the bushes whilst the one with the gun knocked on our door. I was so scared, I could feel my heart beating like it was going to explode out of my chest. I particularly remember the friend’s house my brother and I ran to once we called the cops – I remember it like colour photographs/video.

    So what I’m saying is – you don’t forget these things! Sorry for the digression, but it is so significant that Pistorius forgot something like this! Maybe I should put more exclamation marks in !!!!

    And @miktal re the doona. Totally he said it was on the bed, then changed his mind later.

  33. crackzn
    April 26, 2015

    Look on Facebook for a group called Van Breda Murder mystery.

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This entry was posted on December 7, 2014 by in Oscar Pistorius Trial and tagged , , , .
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