The May 26, 2008 Gmail chat between Travis and Jodi has been transcribed in chronological order. This conversation is discussed in our new book, MENDACITY: JODI ARIAS: Secret Witness, available now on Amazon.
Click on link below for document:
JA and TA May 26. 2008 Gmail Chat Transcribed
Who are they?
Eight females, Jurors #: 1, 6, 8, 10, 11, 15, 16 and 17
Four males, Jurors #: 4, 7, 18 and 19
Two alternates: Female #2 and Male # 13
It’s been two days of deliberations:
9 hours, 45 minutes to be exact.
We don’t have a decision just yet. But we did observe a few odd things in court today. First, apparently juror # 2, who was picked to be an alternate, is pretty disappointed that she won’t get to deliberate. Many people don’t know this, but alternates don’t usually know they are an alternate until the conclusion of a court case. It can be a massive let down for someone who’s sat through months of testimony and really wants to have their vote. So juror # 2 asked the Judge if she could swap with one of the deliberating jurors. A highly unusual request. Obviously, the Judge said no.
The next oddity? One of the jurors brought a crockpot of food to court. Another, a dessert dish. I understand snacks, but a homemade feast seems a bit extravagant. Nevertheless, a good pot of stew is the least these people deserve after being subjected to porn talk for the last four months.
And what is the last item worth mentioning from today? Oh yes… there were llamas on the loose in Phoenix. Two of them. No, I’m not making this up. As if this whole debacle couldn’t be any weirder, Phoenix police spent their day chasing escapee llamas. So there you go… alternates, crockpots and llamas… but no verdict.
Court is dark on Fridays, as well as over the weekend, but the jurors have the option to request their own hours. If they want to stay late or come in over the weekend, they can request that. At the conclusion of today, they are still undecided. So what did they choose to do? Go home for the three day weekend.
Now, I realize that trying to guess what a jury’s going to do is about as futile as counting on your Power Ball ticket to pay this month’s rent. But it’s still an interesting exercise to try to figure them out. So what do I think it means that they’re taking a long weekend?
I think it means they’re divided. Speaking from my own experience, when it finally comes time to deliberate, you cherish that time to talk and debate your opinions. No matter how difficult it gets, and sometimes it can get very heated, most jurors still have the desire to keep working and come to a conclusion as quickly, and thoroughly, as possible. I think it’s unusual that they want to take 3 days off. In the middle of deliberations – 3 days is an eternity. I would not want to break that momentum.
Is it possible that they are close to deciding, or have decided, and want the weekend to sleep on it? Sure. But I believe, not likely. I think it’s normal to sleep on it for a night. But not 3 nights. Not when a family’s been waiting for a conclusion for 7 years.
Now, I absolutely get that this is an excruciating decision to make for them. No matter how much we despise Jodi, and want justice in this case, she’s still a breathing human being and to be the one to decide that another human will stop breathing, is by far the hardest thing one could ever have to do. So I don’t begrudge them whatever time they need. I just think the 3 days are more indicative of a group that are divided and need time to cool down and/or clear their heads.
On the flip side, the fact that they didn’t wave the white flag at the end of today means they are digging in for the long haul. At least for now. Any jury that is still going, still trying to deliver a verdict, always has potential.
What do you guys think?
BYE BYE BOBBIE
Jodi: Well, looking back, I see it was a pattern almost from the beginning; but I didn’t notice it until later… later being later on in the relationship. It seemed like when he had somebody there to provide for him, he didn’t need me or want me but when someone wasn’t there or he needed clothes, he was trying to make the relationship work.
Willmott: And when he tried to make the relationship work, is that something that you went along with?
Jodi: Yes, I did.
Willmott: You said you broke up and got back together several different times?
Willmott: Was there a time when you broke up with him completely?
Willmott: And approximately when is this?
Jodi: This was late 1999.
Willmott: So late 1999, you would have been 19?
Jodi: There was a break-up. At Denny’s I built up vacation time. So I decided to use that. I went back to Costa Rica to heal from the break-up, just to get away from everything. So I spent eight days there with the family. Victor had moved out and moved on. He was doing other things. I was with the family and hanging out and trying to heal; go to the beach and…
Victor has moved out of his family’s home at this point and Jodi claims she’s going to Costa Rica to visit his family, not him. Does anybody really believe that? She can’t say she’s going to visit Victor because that falls right in line with her pattern of jumping from guy to guy. Her and Bobby split, and she was back in Victor’s bed in no time.
Willmott: Did you go to kind of clear your head?
Willmott: And what were you thinking about? When you say clear your head, what were you thinking about?
Jodi: Well, I was… there was a lot of pain in the relationship and things we had been through. It was kind of processing. It was meditative in a way. There wasn’t a whole lot of activity like when I was 17, we went to all the tourist spots. It was more educational. This was more relaxing.
Willmott: So what happened? So you come back from Costa Rica?
Willmott: Did you make a decision about your relationship with Bobbie?
Jodi: Yes, we were broken up.
Willmott: Did you intend to keep it that way?
Let me translate – did you try your very best not to stalk him? It’s almost laughable how obvious these questions are. The whole world knows that Jodi is an obsessive girlfriend, that she can’t let things go. But Willmott is, not very successfully in my opinion, trying to use this as an example of Jodi practicing self-control and walking away.
Jodi: Yes, I had not planned to contact him.
Willmott: What happened?
Jodi: I came back to work at Denny’s where I was working, and I was just working my shift. I went in the back for something. I came back out. There are counters in the front where the swinging door is from the back. When I came out, he was sitting right on the first seat there with this puppy dog look on his face, like his head in his hands kind of thing.
Willmott: Was he just waiting for you?
Willmott: Did you end up speaking with him?
Willmott: And how did that conversation go?
Jodi: It was emotional. I was coming up on my break. So he waited and we left the building and we went outside to the parking lot to my car to talk and there were tears and he missed me and I missed him. I guess so we ended up… I don’t know that we actually got back together. This was very much towards the end, but we continued to see each other.
Willmott: At this point in time where were you living?
Jodi: I believe I was with my grandma at this point. Yeah, I think I was living with my grandma.
Willmott: Other than this back and forth with you and Bobbie, was there ever a point in time when he was actually physical with you?
Jodi: Yes, one time.
Willmott: And as far as when we are talking timeline, when does that happen.
Jodi: This was also late 1999. I don’t recall the exact month, but it might have been around October and I was at my… I was at my friend’s house. I forgot. I was living at this girl’s house, just staying there. I stayed there a few months. So at this point I’m at her house and… this is in Montague as well. He as over there visiting. There was no one else home, just him and I. We got into an argument.
Willmott: What happened in the argument?
Jodi: The argument, he…
Willmott: Was he yelling?
Jodi He was yelling. He was very dramatic. He is very emotionally deep. He was just being himself, and we were arguing; and he approached me and he spun me around and he got me into a choke hold.
Willmott: He had his arm around your throat?
Jodi: I think both arms. I don’t really know how to do a choke hold but he does. So he did that.
Willmott: Why does he know how to do a choke hold?
Jodi: He was in Martial Arts and that sort of thing.
Willmott: You said he came up to you and he spun you around?
Jodi: Yes, he just took my shoulders and spun me around so my back was to him.
Willmott: What were you expecting? Do you remember… do you have a memory of what you thought was going to happen when he spun you around?
Jodi: Yeah. I mean, we had made up after arguments before and he was nice. He had never been physical with me before. So I was thinking he was going to hug me or something and instead he choked me.
If they were really having a heated fight, why would she have the expectation that he’s going to hug her? Her stories simply lack all common sense, which seems to support that they are just stories and not actually the truth.
Willmott: What happened when he choked you? Do you remember it?
Jodi: Yeah, he squeezed really hard and he let go; and I fell to my knees. Very, very light headed. I almost passed out but I didn’t.
Willmott: What was going through your head at that point in time?
Jodi: I was kind of mad.
Kind of mad? Does that seem like a reasonable response to being choked to the point of almost passing out? Again, nonsensical.
Jodi: I thought you just choked me. I was a little bit mad. I was stunned. He had never done that before. So I turned around and followed him out of the living room and said something… I don’t remember what I said… something to the effect that my family would be very upset if they knew what you just did. It wasn’t that but it was…
Willmott: Jodi, let me ask you this: He just choked you and you followed him out?
Jodi: Well, we were in this house. The living room is right outside the bedroom. So you know… he went to the living room and I went to the living room.
Willmott: So then what happens?
Jodi: At that point he approached me again, and he got me into some kind of hold. I don’t recall like how it was, but it was… he had my arm and he was placing pressure on my forearm: and it seemed intention was to break it.
Willmott: Because of the pressure that he was placing?
Jodi: Right, the way he was holding it. The way he was putting the pressure on it.
Willmott: At this point in time do you remember what was going on through your head?
Jodi: Well, the phone was like not 5 or 6 feet away. So that was my intention.
Willmott: What did you do?
Jodi: I somehow squirmed over to the phone and managed to grab it. We were both trying to grab it. I grabbed it and I turned it on and I called 911.
Willmott: Is this a cell phone or home phone?
Jodi: A portable home phone.
Jodi: He grabbed the phone from me and hung it up.
Willmott: Okay. Did they ever call back?
Jodi: Yeah. He was telling me to shut up because at that point I was crying. He kept telling me to shut up because they were going to call back. Maybe a few seconds later, a minute… not even a minute later the phone rang. He answered and he talked to the operator and he told her everything was fine. It was just a mistake.
Willmott: Do you know if the police ever showed up?
Jodi: I don’t… I mean, we left.
Willmott: I was going to say, why don’t you know?
Jodi: Yeah, we left. We were leaving. He didn’t have a ride. So I took him where he needed to go.
She has to say she left because of course the police would have come to the house to check it out. They always do. If Jodi was that terrified and upset that she called 911, she wouldn’t simply get in a car with him and leave.
Willmott: After all this, you took him? You just didn’t leave him?
Jodi: You know, I don’t know actually… I know he left and we both left. I’m sorry. He may have walked away or he may have gotten in my car with me. I don’t remember.
This is not a mundane detail and one that somebody should remember! If your typically non-violent boyfriend just tried to choke you and you almost passed out, and then you called the police – you would remember how you each left the scene that day. To me, this is a clear sign that there are parts of this story that aren’t true.
Also, the fact that the details of this story are almost an exact replica of the story she tells with Travis, is not a coincidence. She’s making stories up on the fly and that’s why there are commonalities. She accused both men, Bobby and Travis, of suddenly becoming violent after initially having a loving, non-violent relationship with them. They both choked her suddenly and she forgave them both. I think she has wildly exaggerated these situations to gain sympathy from family members.
Willmott: But did you stay at the house?
Jodi: No, not that time.
Willmott: You said this was a house… a friend’s house that you had just been staying at briefly?
Willmott: Did you have any idea what the address was?
Jodi: No, I didn’t get any mail there.
Willmott: And after you were arrested and this case was pending, did you have any idea what that address was?
Jodi: No. I mean, I could drive to the house. I know where it is, but I don’t know the address.
Willmott: You didn’t know… you didn’t have the actual physical address of it, right?
Jodi: No, I don’t.
Willmott: After this happens with Bobbie, did you tell anybody?
Jodi: Yes, I did.
Willmott: Who did you tell?
Jodi: I told my parents.
Willmott: And okay and anybody else?
Willmott: Well, after you told your parents, did anybody else find out?
Jodi: I guess they told my brother Carl.
Willmott: Why do you guess that?
Jodi: Because he got a little gang of his friends and they went over to Bobbie’s house and confronted him.
Willmott: Carl and a little gang of his friends, was one of his friends named Kellan (phonetic)?
Willmott: Did you know Kellan?
Jodi: I did know him… not very well but I knew he was a friend of my brother’s .
Willmott: And did Kellan, was he in high school when you were…
Jodi: Right, he was a grade younger… a grade below mine and my brother. My brother was only one grade below me. So they were in the same grade.
Willmott: So your brother Carl and Kellan, were there other boys involved that you knew of?
Jodi: There were other boys involved to my understanding.
Willmott: What did they do?
Martinez: OBJECTION. Lack of foundation – to my understanding. How does she know?
Willmott: What did they do?
Jodi: They went to…
Martinez: Same objection. Lack of foundation.
Willmott: Her answer was not in relation to that question.
Court: Overruled. You may answer.
Jodi: They went to Bobbie’s house.
Martinez: Objection. Foundation. They went to Bobbie’s house.
Willmott: Judge, may we approach?
Martinez says to the Judge that he wants to know how Jodi knows this information about her brother and his friends. Willmott says she will ask her.
At this point in testimony, they take a break and discuss the fact that the attorney for the press has requested the closed chambers hearing record.
Court: Let’s take up the issue of the transcript of the hearing conducted in chambers. The attorney for the press has requested it. Thinking about it, my suggestion is that I enter an order that the transcript be prepared under seal and provided directly to the Court of Appeals in the event there is a special action filed. So it would not go to anyone other than to the Court of Appeals.
Martinez: Well, I think that this involves a third party. They should probably be heard on that issue; but if that is the ruling that goes to the Court of Appeals, someone should perhaps tell their lawyer that’s where it is.
Court: Right. I told the lawyer for the media that I needed to speak to you and get any objection to providing the transcript.
Martinez: No, I have no objection to the transcript being provided.
Nurmi: Not to the Court of Appeals. Obviously our concern is it getting out to the media in any way, shape or form.
God forbid Jodi looks like an idiot in front of the public. She’s already on trial for murder – how much worse can it get? In her closed hearing the defense team complained on her behalf that she gets nervous talking to the court and she’s in fear for her safety. In fear for her safety? She’s on trial facing the death penalty. Yes, I would say her safety is already at stake and their argument is ridiculous.
TO SEE A COPY OF THAT SEALED HEARING, WHICH WAS SUBSEQUENTLY RELEASED CLICK HERE.
Nurmi: So the attorneys for KPNX to be instructed it is also under seal and only being created for the limited purposes of a special action.
Court: Okay. So, Randy, you want to go out and see if the attorney is still out in the hallway. I will ask court staff to contact the attorney and give him an opportunity if he wants to be present. Otherwise, we will tell him that the intention is we will provide a sealed transcript directly to the Court of Appeals. If he wants to be heard on that issue, he can come down and have a hearing on Monday. We are at recess.
They return from break…
Willmott: Jodi, when we took a break, we were talking about what happened after Bobbie choked you and what your brother did?
Willmott: How… are you aware whether or not your brother did anything after that?
Willmott: How were you aware of that?
Jodi: One of my family members told me. I think it might have been my parents and also Bobbie told me.
Willmott: Bobbie told you later?
Willmott: What is it that you learned that happened?
Jodi: My brother and a group of his friends confronted him. They went to his house. They knocked on his door and they went out there and confronted him.
Willmott: When they confronted him… did they beat him up or what happened?
Jodi: I don’t know dialogue or anything, but their intention was to go there to intimidate him somehow.
Willmott: Is that because of what he did to you?
Jodi: Yes, right.
Willmott: And what… do you know based on what Bobbie told you what he did?
Willmott: What did Bobbie do?
Jodi: He got a sword and he… he knows how to wield it. So he came out there and started swinging it around and scared them off.
Ok, seriously. A sword?? Who are these people? Here’s what I think happened, and of course this is speculation. I think that Jodi and Bobbie did have a heated fight. There may have been some physical scuffling involved, or not, but I don’t believe Jodi when she says that Bobbie choked her out of the blue. I tend to think, knowing her penchant for going off the deep end, she embellished the physicality of their argument to gain sympathy from her family and to prompt Carl to act. Threats are her specialty, so if she wasn’t happy with Bobbie, having her brother threaten him seems right up her alley.
Willmott: Okay. At this point in time in your relationship, is that… was that… how did you feel about your relationship after that?
Jodi: Well, at this time… this is around the time the whole relationship just began to fall apart for good, not permanently yet; but it was coming close to that point.
Yes, I would imagine a choking, leading to a 911 call, leading to a sword fight, would be a bit of a downer in most relationships. Does she realize how ridiculous this sounds? She doesn’t sound like a woman who is conflicted by an abuser – she sounds like a scammer who is playing everyone like puppets.
Willmott: And what did you do about that? How is it that it fell apart?
Jodi: Well, there was that incident; and I did go to Costa Rica to heal from things. Also, I ended up moving to Santa Maria to sort of get away from everything.
Willmott: When you say you moved to Santa Maria, tell us again, this is from Yreka to Santa Maria?
Jodi: Yes, back to Santa Maria.
Willmott: About how far apart is that?
Jodi: I’m guessing about 600 miles. I just know it takes all day long to drive.
Willmott: When you moved to Santa Maria, did you stay with… who do you stay with?
Jodi: I stayed with a friend of mine that I had made friends with down there.
Willmott: And what did you do when you were down there?
Jodi: I got a job and began working.
Willmott: Where did you get a job at?
Willmott: During this time did Bobbie contact you at all?
Jodi: Yeah, he continued to contact me.
Willmott: Was that by phone?
Jodi: Right, by phone.
Willmott: Did he ever come to visit you?
Jodi: Yes. He did come to Santa Maria with me at one time.
Willmott: And did you consider yourself dating him anymore?
Jodi: We were still dating. I don’t know where we were going, but we were still seeing each other.
Willmott: And if you were still dating, why did you move to Santa Maria?
Jodi: Well, like I said, we were constantly breaking up and getting back together and breaking up. He would always say it was over. It is over and he would call me back again. He would apologize or whatever. He was dramatic.
Willmott: All right. So about how long did you stay in Santa Maria?
Jodi: How long, only like two months.
Willmott: Okay. What happened to Bobbie during those two months?
Jodi: He ended up moving to Medford, Oregon which is about 50 miles north of Yreka.
Willmott: 50 miles north of Yreka?
Willmott: Okay. And when he moved to Medford, where was he living just generally?
Jodi: He started living with a friend that he reconnected with.
Willmott: At this point did Bobbie finally get a job?
Jodi: He finally managed to get a job.
Willmott: So was he working in Medford then?
Jodi: Yes, he was.
Willmott: During this time you said that you were still in contact with him?
Willmott: At a certain point did you leave Santa Maria?
Willmott: Why is that?
Jodi: It was harder than I thought it would be financially. So I moved back to Yreka to be with my grandma. I wasn’t in Santa Maria very long.
Her grandparent’s house is her default place to fall back to when times get hard. If she doesn’t have a man to stay with, she goes back to that room.
Willmott: You said you moved in with your grandma?
Willmott: Why not in with your parents?
Jodi: I didn’t want to go back to that environment. My parents and I were getting along better now that we weren’t interacting so much. Our relationship improved somewhat after I moved out.
Willmott: When you didn’t have constant contact with them?
Jodi: Right. When I wasn’t living with them under the same roof, seeing them all the time under their rules. They didn’t… they were nicer and I just didn’t have… I don’t know. It was just better between us. Everything improved when I moved out.
I believe Jodi when she says that escaping “their rules” was the key to her happiness. Jodi doesn’t want to live by anybody’s rules. If somebody’s abusing you, just moving out doesn’t solve the problem. Obviously her problem was them trying to parent her. And not having to answer to them or be disciplined by them surely was a source of relief for her. I’m sure it was a source of relief for them too, based on what they said to Detective Flores at the police station.
The only reason she was staying in that tiny dump of a bedroom at her grandparent’s house was because she couldn’t afford to live on her own, and she could come and go and have her freedom. But the four walls of that room moved in on her every time she went back, and she was never there long before she got the itch to move out again. But her finances were continually a burden. The only way out for her – permanently – was to find a man to support her. For the most part, Travis had the ability to do that. She wasn’t just obsessed with Travis; she was desperate for him to change her life. In her disturbed mind, he ruined everything for her and she responded in a monstrous way.
Willmott: When you came back to Yreka, was that… is that why you moved in with your grandma?
Jodi: Right, and my grandmother and I have always gotten along.
Willmott: Was your grandfather still alive at that time?
Jodi: Yeah, both of my grandparents were there.
Willmott: All right. And what did you do… how long did you stay in Yreka?
Jodi: Well, not long.
Jodi: I don’t remember exactly.
Willmott: You don’t remember exactly?
Jodi: Yeah, I was there during the holidays; but I may have just been there for the holidays. I wasn’t there long.
Willmott: And at this point in time is Bobbie still contacting you?
Jodi: Yes, we are still hanging out.
Notice Willmott constantly positions her questioning as Bobbie chasing Jodi. It can’t be Jodi contacting him because that falls in line with her being the aggressor, and as we know with Travis, the stalker. They have to paint the picture that Jodi is being pursued. But in actuality, there is a pattern of Jodi following her boyfriends around after they’ve broken up. She and Bobbie were on the outs, and she followed him to Oregon, as you’ll see in this next section. She and Victor were broken up, yet she traveled all the way to Costa Rica – she claims to see his family, but let’s be real – she went there for him. And of course, we know she moved to Mesa, AZ, from CA, after she and Travis broke up. There is a clear pattern that she can’t let go. She’s frequently interjecting herself into the lives of these men. Willmott is running interference and trying to squash any inferences to prior stalking the jury may make.
Willmott: And because of that, do you meet… do you know who his roommate is?
Willmott: Did you get to meet his roommate?
Jodi: I did.
Willmott: Did you become friends with this roommate?
Willmott: What was his roommate’s name?
Jodi: His name is Matt McCartney.
Willmott: And because of meeting Mr. McCartney, did you also meet his family?
Willmott: And at the time are you living at your grandparents house still?
Jodi: For a brief time and then I moved.
Willmott: So the time that you are living at your grandparents’ house, did you also see Mr. McCartney’s family?
Jodi: Right. I befriended his sister and her children.
Willmott: And at some point in time you said you moved from Yreka. Where did you go?
Jodi: I moved in with Matt’s family also. He had family all along that whole interstate area from Yreka to Medford he had family. I moved in with his family.
So this is the friend of her boyfriend who she just recently met. She weasels her way into his family’s life and moves in with them while barely knowing them. This to me shows her prowess at manipulation. She quickly won these people over so much so that they opened up their home to her – a stranger – and rent free!
Willmott: And why did you do that?
Jodi: Well, in that area where there are more cities, there are more job opportunities and also I was able to… I was hired right away at Applebee’s in Medford because I had prior experience with that company.
Willmott: So when you moved in with Matt’s family, where are we talking about? Actually in Medford?
Jodi: It is in a city Phoenix, Oregon.
Willmott: Phoenix, Oregon?
Willmott: Where is Phoenix, Oregon in comparison to Medford?
Jodi: I would say 15… well, probably 10 miles south, maybe.
Willmott: And what was the point of you moving in with Matt’s family?
Jodi: Well, there was no rent. They took me in to get on my feet so I can get a job and be in an area where there were jobs available.
Willmott: Were there more jobs available in Medford than in Yreka?
Jodi: Much more and in the industry I was in there is more money to be made than in Yreka.
Willmott: So you began working in Applebee’s in Medford?
Willmott: All right. At a certain point did… did you and Bobbie stop contacting… did he stop contacting you?
Jodi: Yeah, he did.
Willmott: At what point did this happen?
Jodi: I don’t remember the exact date. It was in 1999. The sword was mine so he… I just remember he liked and held onto it, but then one day he put them out on the porch where he was living and he gave them to me. Didn’t say a word and he just shut the door and that was it. Matt couldn’t explain his behavior. He didn’t want to talk to me.
So Jodi moves in with her boyfriend’s friend’s family – another guy’s family – and she’s not sure why her boyfriend no longer wants to speak with her. Possibly because she’s sleeping with his friend? Is Matt a ploy to make Bobbie jealous, or does she want her cake and eat it too – have both guys to mess around with. See which guy ends up being the better deal? Obviously Matt is the better deal because he has a job. So it looks like she just upgraded.
And she drops the bombshell that the sword he previously wielded at her brother and his friends belongs to HER. And she then changes it to plural as she’s answering Willmott’s question. Why does Jodi own swords? Not exactly a normal thing for a 20-something girl who’s bopping around from home to home.
Willmott: Bobbie didn’t want to talk to you?
Jodi: Right. I thought that was the end but we ended up talking one last time again. At that point I can’t remember how we had our last contact. I don’t remember that but it was toward the end…
Willmott: It was pretty much over?
Jodi: It was done, yeah. We weren’t…
Willmott: Did Bobbie eventually move away from Matt?
Jodi: I think they moved out of the studio apartment they were sharing at the time. They found separate places.
Willmott: In the meantime are you friends with Matt?
Willmott: And you are still friends with his family?
Willmott: And are you still staying with his family in Phoenix?
Willmott: And are you working at Applebee’s at this time?
Willmott: At a certain point in time did you and Matt become involved in a relationship?
Jodi: Yes, later on we did.
Willmott: And when you say “later on”, what do you mean?
Jodi: Well, not too later on. I would say a few months later we were seeing each other.
Willmott: A few months later?
Willmott: And a few months later than what?
Jodi: Gosh, a few months after Bobbie and I stopped communicating.
Willmott: Okay. And at the time that you and Matt had started in a dating relationship, how long had you been friends about?
Jodi: I would say maybe 3 or 4 months.
Willmott: And then you start this dating relationship?
Willmott: And are you still working at Applebee’s in Medford?
Willmott: Did you and Matt move in together?
Jodi: We did.
Willmott: Where did that happen?
Jodi: In Medford.
Willmott: During the time when you started dating Matt, what kind of relationship was that? What were your common interests?
Jodi: Well, I have always considered myself a spiritual person. He was into that too, just different ways we connected on that level. We went to meditation seminars and things like that. It was a good relationship, I think.
Willmott: Did you find you had things in common then?
Jodi: Yeah, we did. He was also in Martial Arts. I had taken that as well with my brother. That was another common interest.
Willmott: Did you do Martial Arts together?
Jodi: We did.
Willmott: Did you ever take Martial Arts classes from anybody?
Willmott: With Matt?
Jodi goes on to talk about how Matt explored different religions and she was raised Christian. She states initially their spiritual discussions were odd for her. But he was exploring Hinduism and together they started getting in to new age type of stuff. The religion issue with Jodi, and the fact that she’s constantly changing her ideals, shows she’s not tied to anything. She doesn’t truly believe in anything. She jumps from religion to religion to satisfy a goal that has nothing to do with spirituality. It has everything to do with satisfying her man and securing her position in his life.
Willmott: As far as your relationship was concerned, we talked about Bobbie not having a job when you were with him. How was it with Matt? How did he treat you in that sense?
Jodi: With Matt he was working. He had a stable job. Wasn’t a lot of money, but he was responsible with his money mostly; and he paid for his half of things mostly, and he treated me a lot differently than Bobbie did.
Willmott: How is it that he treated you differently?
Jodi: He was polite. He was a gentleman. He was a little more chivalrous. He was nice.
Willmott: Was he respectful?
Jodi: He was respectful.
Willmott: At a certain time… how long altogether were you with Matt?
Jodi: About a year and eight months roughly, close to two years but not quite.
Willmott: All right. And when you were dating Matt, was there a time when you left your job at Applebee’s?
Willmott: Where did you go?
Jodi: Matt and I moved to Crater Lake, Oregon.
Willmott: And where is Crater Lake, Oregon?
Jodi: It is 70 miles northeast of Ashland and southeast of Medford, I think. I mean, it is east. It is kind of the… in the middle of nowhere in the mountains.
Jodi describes the area as being a national park and resort-like. They moved there for seasonal work, waiting tables. They had dorm style living arrangements and she and Matt shared a room. They made some money and then moved back to Medford when they were done. Jodi resumed her job at Applebee’s.
Willmott: What happened during the second season? Did you go back up to Crater Lake?
Jodi: No. The second season came close and Matt and I decided to have space between us. By then we weren’t getting along… we were getting along. There was a little more argument in our relationship. It wasn’t as happy anymore. We decided to spend time apart.
Willmott: When you are spending time apart, did you consider yourself broken up?
Jodi: We were not broken up. We just needed space, not living together. It was like kind of a trial period. We were still together on the weekends. He still came to my apartment. I moved to Ashland and we were still together.
Ok, who’s having flashbacks to Ross and Rachel… we were on a break? You can see where this is going. First, Jodi being consistent with her behavior – she repeatedly sleeps with guys who she’s broken up with/not getting along with. Obviously using sex to keep him in the picture, hence, the weekend visits.
And as you’ll see in the paragraphs ahead, Matt, according to Jodi, cheats on her. She can’t fathom any of her men being with other women, even when they’re broken up. Which, ok, I’ll give her that. Jealousy is not an abnormal response. BUT, Jodi’s responses are never normal. She can’t simply have the emotion and go on her way. That jealousy, and lack of control, and rejection, incites her and seems to ignite her disordered side.
Willmott: Why did you move to Ashland?
Jodi: Ashland is where I always wanted to be. It is a little more expensive because it is kind of a little touristy town, but I found a good deal on some apartment listing online; and I applied for it and I got the apartment.
Willmott: Were you working at Applebee’s still in Medford?
Willmott: And so during the second season, where did Matt go?
Jodi: He went to Crate Lake for the soon.
Willmott: And you stayed in Ashland?
Jodi: I did.
Willmott: At some point in time, was there… was there a break-up in your relationship?
Willmott: What happened?
Jodi: I found out that he was seeing somebody at Crater Lake. So…
Willmott: How did you find that out?
Jodi: Some people who work at Crater Lake told me. I didn’t know these people, but they recognized me because on the weekends that he didn’t come stay with me, I went and stayed with him.
Hmmm… so people that don’t know her decided to do Jodi a favor and notify her that the boyfriend she’s no longer living with is seeing another girl? Makes sense, right? I’ll go out on a limb here and will speculate that Jodi snooped and found out that Matt was seeing somebody else. Let’s not forget, “mystery women” also notified Jodi that Travis was seeing somebody else. And we know from the text messages that Travis was livid over her obvious mendacity.
Martinez objects. He wants to know how Jodi knows these people recognized her. The objection is sustained.
Willmott: Did people come and talk to you?
Jodi: They stopped me. I don’t know how…
Willmott: They stopped you. Did they know who you were?
Willmott: How do you know that?
Jodi: They said “Hi Jodi”
Willmott: Based on the fact that they called you by name, you were able to understand that they knew you?
Willmott: You were at Applebee’s at the time?
Willmott: So they stopped you as you were walking by you said?
Willmott: And what happened?
Jodi: I asked them how… I asked them if I knew them. Maybe I didn’t remember them from something. They said, “We work at Crater Lake”. I said “Oh, that’s great”. I knew they were there and they knew Matt and that’s how they knew me, and I just said “hi” kind of thing and I continued on and kept working and…
Willmott: Did you eventually learn that Matt was seeing somebody?
Jodi: Before they left, I stopped by their table one more time and they told me.
Willmott: They told you?
Jodi: Yeah, they said they took a vote and they decided to tell me.
Willmott: I’m sorry?
Jodi: They said “We took a vote and decided to tell you”
Willmott: Prior to that, were you at Matt’s dad house ever?
Jodi: What do you mean by ever? I have been there.
Willmott: That’s a good question. Prior to that, did you ever see a picture of Matt and a girl at Crater Lake?
Jodi: I did. I was at Matt’s dad house hanging out with his girlfriend, and we were on the computer and we were looking at photos and there were photos of a girl with… the file name was just of B. That was the initial maybe. The file names were B, B1, B2, B3 and that kind of thing.
Willmott: Where was the picture taken? Can you tell?
Jodi: Yes, I could tell it was in the lodge. It is called the great hall, the lodge of the dining room.
Willmott: Could you tell whether or not it was a current picture, like from that particular season?
Jodi: That I couldn’t tell. I didn’t look at the date, time stamp. It looked current.
Willmott: So based on that and then you have these people talk to you at Applebee’s after that?
Jodi: Yes, this occurred after that. It made me put the two together but not right away but, yeah.
Willmott: Tell me what happened when you find out that Matt is seeing somebody.
Jodi: I asked them a few more questions. Oh, I asked them what her name was. They said it was Bianca and so that’s when I put the two together.
Willmott: The B and Bianca?
Jodi: Yeah, they said Bianca. I didn’t know her. It was slow. I asked my boss to leave early and…
Willmott: Why did you ask your boss to leave early?
Jodi: So I can go there and find out if it was true.
Willmott: So you were going to drive all the way up to Crater Lake?
Willmott: How long of a drive is that?
Jodi: It is 70 miles.
Willmott: So it is a little over an hour?
Jodi: Well, it is through the mountains. It takes roughly an hour and a half I think if I remember correctly.
Willmott: Did you do that? Did you drive up there?
Jodi: Yes, I did.
Willmott: And was Matt in Crater Lake at this time?
Jodi: No. He was in Borango Springs during that time.
Willmott: What is that?
Jodi: Borrego Springs is… it is either a city, I think. I have never actually been there. It is in Southern California near San Diego, and he was trying to get seasonal work during the winter at a resort there.
Willmott: Okay. So you are driving up. What is your purpose when you are driving up there?
Jodi: I wanted to see if… I wanted to ask Bianca if that was true. I didn’t know these people. If it is true, I obviously don’t want to continue in a relationship with Matt. If it is not true, then… I don’t know who these people are. So I didn’t want to just take their word for it.
If your red flag warnings aren’t going off yet, they should be. There is nothing normal about first confronting the supposed other woman before discussing it with your boyfriend… unless you are looking for trouble! Especially if your source is total strangers. She knew Matt was out of town and she chose to confront this woman rather than talk to him. She was going there to harass Bianca, not have a chat with her.
Willmott: Okay. So what happens when you get up there? What did you do?
Jodi: I went to the dorm on the top of the mountain, and I just walked in. I mean, people are everywhere.
Willmott: So it is something that you can just walk in?
Jodi: Yea, right.
Willmott: And were you able to find who this Bianca was?
Jodi: I did.
Willmott: And was she in… was she in a room or something?
Jodi: She was in her dorm.
Willmott: Okay. And did you go and knock on her door?
Willmott: When you knocked on her door, are you yelling at her?
Willmott: Are you causing a scene in any way?
Willmott: Were you pounding on her door to let you in?
Jodi: No. I knocked loudly so she could hear, but I wasn’t pounding.
Willmott: Did she come to the door?
Jodi: She and a friend came to the door.
Willmott: So tell us what happened.
Jodi: The friend took off and she let me in. She said she knew who I was. I guess she said she knew me…
Willmott: Jodi, I can’t hear you.
Jodi: I’m sorry. She let me in. We got talking. I asked her and she said…
Willmott: You asked her what?
Jodi: Well, I said I heard that… I don’t remember my exact words but I asked her about her and Matt and she pretty much confirmed for me…
Willmott: What did you do? (they adjust sound as Jodi is hard to hear)
Willmott: Okay. So she confirms for you that Matt is actually seeing her? Is that what you just said?
Willmott: Okay. How did you feel?
Jodi: Well, at the time… I’m in her home. I’m not going to freak out or anything.
Willmott: Inside. We are talking about inside. How did you feel?
Jodi: I didn’t feel good. I mean, I felt very deceived obviously. He is still sleeping with me. He is still coming to my house on the weekends. You know, we are going places. I mean, physically going places… not in our relationship obviously. So it hurt. I was very hurt.
Willmott: How did you handle that situation with Bianca after she confirms it?
Jodi: I just… I asked her like how long it had been going on, and she told me that. She said they had not slept together, but they were romantic; and they saw each other often and hung out; spent the night with each other, that sort of thing.
Willmott: Did you do anything to her?
Jodi: No. No.
Willmott: Did you start yelling at her then?
Jodi: I never yelled at her.
Willmott: Did you have any kind of angry words with her at all?
Jodi: No, not at all. She didn’t even know we were still together. She was under the impression we were broken up. I didn’t blame her for anything, you know?
Willmott: So what did you do after… what did you do after that with Matt with your relationship?
Jodi: At that point I waited for Matt to get back to Borago Springs. I think he was coming back the next day. So I went over to where he was staying at his dad’s at that point and confronted him.
Willmott shows the court a picture of Jodi and Matt around late 2001/early 2002.
Willmott: You said… you said this could have been taken after you broke up?
Jodi: I know it was taken after we broke up because that is at the Monterey Bay Aquarium, and he moved to Montana after I did.
Willmott: That begs the question: Were you friends with him after you broke up?
Willmott: So tell us how is it that this relationship ended.
Jodi: There were tears and he cried. I cried. It was difficult.
Willmott: Did you break up with him?
Jodi: Well, it just seemed… I don’t know that one person really broke up with the other. It is just that the relationship was over. He was seeing somebody else, you know. Obviously he was… he had moved on in some way because he was seeing somebody else, but we just were no longer together at that point.
Willmott: Okay. Now, at this point in time, you are staying in Ashland?
Jodi: Yes, I was living in Ashland at that point.
Jodi explains how the Martial Arts instructor that at one time taught her and Matt also lived in Ashland with his girlfriend. His girlfriend’s brother, Richard Molay, is the one who gave her a reference for a job at Ventana Inn in Big Sur, CA. Richard was working there at the time. Big Sur is an exclusive and expensive area to live on the coast.
Willmott: As far as when we talk about you progressing. In going… working from the Purple Plum to Denny’s to Applebee’s, those type of places, how does Ventana Inn fit into this?
Jodi: I would say it is the nicest place I ever worked.
Willmott: And as far as money was concerned, was it good financially for you?
Willmott: You got hired to do what?
Jodi: I was waiting tables there as well.
This was at the end of 2001. Jodi eventually moved in to their employee housing. There was a two week wait to get in so in the meantime she stayed in the campground on their property. Matt stayed with her for those two weeks. So after he cheats on her, and they are broken up, she’s still sleeping with him. When she moved into the housing, he stayed at the campground. Matt was eventually hired at Ventana Inn as well but maintained his own housing, while Jodi lived with other roommates. She states they were just friends but there was some brief lingering intimacy. He left the following spring. Jodi worked there for three and a half years. She made friends there, including Richard Molay, the guy who helped to hook her up with the job. She also ended up being a part time hiking guide through a man she met there, Steve Copeland. They would take guests on hikes through their trails on the property.
Willmott establishes that Daryl Brewer was the Food and Beverage Director, and he was the one who hired Jodi. Jodi states that they did not socialize at first.
Willmott: At what point did that change?
Jodi: Well, at one point he decided to step down from that position so he could spend more time with his son; and we were interested in each other at that point. We had a conversation that we discovered that. So we sort of began to date.
Willmott: Tell us a little bit more about Mr. Brewer. He was the food and beverage director. How old was he at the time that you…
Jodi: At the time he was 42.
Willmott: So was he older than you?
Willmott: Quite a bit?
Jodi: Quite a bit.
Willmott: Was he married?
Jodi: He was divorced.
Jodi states his divorce was civil but he had some bitterness about it. She claims they worked together a little over a year before they began dating. At that time, he was no longer her boss or anybody else’s boss. He was working as a lead server which provided him more flexibility in his schedule. She talks about how they eventually dated. They had football in common. One of their first dates was the 49ers game. They also liked to camp. Daryl’s son would visit him on the weekends. Jodi says that at first, she was not a big presence in his life so she didn’t meet him right away.
Willmott: When you first started dating Mr. Brewer, what was your understanding about the type of relationship that you were going to have with regard to marriage?
Jodi: There would be no marriage in the relationship. That was my…
Willmott: Why did you have that understanding?
Jodi: Well, when we first began dating, he was very mature about it. He just told me “Look, I don’t ever want to get married again. I didn’t see myself having a girlfriend, but I like you if you are okay with that. We can be together.” And I was okay with it at that time.
It sounds like she viewed Daryl as a stepping stone. A way to have somebody provide for her until a better option came along. The Mormon Church, its stable of single men, and Travis – all were a better option for Jodi. And regardless of her commitments to Daryl, she dropped him and their house like a hot potato when her prospects improved.
Willmott: How old were you at this time?
Willmott: Eventually does he start bringing his son around when you were there too?
Willmott: Do you become involved with his son?
Willmott: In what way?
Jodi: We begin going out on the weekends and doing things together. Sometimes his son came with us camping. We would go to the beach. We would go to the aquarium, the park, just different things.
Willmott shows pictures of Jodi with Daryl and his son. Juan asks that they lay some foundation as to when the photographs were taken.
Willmott: Jodi, one of the things that I don’t think we really talked about yet is photography.
Willmott: Did you like to take photos?
Jodi: I did.
Willmott: Tell us a little bit about your… your…
Willmott: Yeah, your love, your interest in photography.
Jodi: Yes. I came interested in photography when I was very young. I got my first camera… it was either Christmas or birthday. It was a birthday present when I was 10 and that sparked my interest. I just progressed with that and continued to be interested in that.
Willmott: You continued what?
Jodi: To be interested in that.
Willmott: As you got older, did you continue with your… did you get more serious as a photographer?
Jodi: I did.
Willmott: In what way?
Jodi: I decided to make it a profession, and so I invested in a nicer camera. I began to… I bought nicer software for photo editing, and I began to photograph weddings, portraits, things like that.
Willmott: At the time you were dating Mr. Brewer, was that something that you were… were you interested in photography at the time that you were dating Mr. Brewer?
Jodi: Yes, right.
Willmott: When you were dating Mr. Brewer, did you ever go to… on trips with Mr. Brewer and his son?
Willmott: Did you ever go to Mount San Jacinto?
Willmott: Do you remember approximately when that was?
Jodi: That was after we moved to Palm Desert because that is right next to Palm Springs. You take the tram straight up into the mountain.
Willmott: When approximately? When did you move to Palm Desert?
Jodi: We moved there in 2005.
Willmott: After 2005?
Jodi: It was either in 2005 or the year after. I believe it was that winter.
Willmott: Judge, I move for admission of 695.
695 is a photo of Jodi with Daryl and son while they were on vacation. They had been dating for about 3 years at the time it was taken. Jodi also mentions that she attended birthday parties for his son and they enter exhibit 694 which is a picture of the three of them at Chuck E. Cheese’s.
Willmott: Let’s go back in time a little bit. We were talking about when you first started dating Mr. Brewer. Is there… how long were you dating when you were living in staff housing?
Jodi: I think that shortly after we began dating, he moved to Monterey. The whole point was to be closer to his son, and his mother lived in Carmel; and he moved to Monterey.
Willmott: What is the difference between Monterey and Big Sur?
Jodi: Monterey is a city. Big Sur is more just a region.
Willmott: I mean distance. Sorry.
Jodi: It takes roughly an hour to get there because you have to drive kind of slow on the winding road. It is about 30 miles south.
Willmott: And so soon after you started dating, you said he moved to Monterey?
Willmott: Did that interrupt your dating at all?
Jodi: No. I’d stay with him on the weekends.
Willmott: I’m sorry?
Jodi: We had the same days off. I would stay with him on the weekends.
Willmott: Did you go up to Monterey to stay with him?
Willmott: And at this point in time when you were staying with him on the weekends is… how old were you at this point?
Jodi: 23, 24.
Willmott: So are we in … 2003?
Willmott: And just so we have parameters, about how long were you dating Mr. Brewer altogether?
Jodi: Roughly, close to four years. We were just shy of four years.
Willmott: Is there a point in time when you left staff housing at Ventana?
Willmott: When did that happen?
Jodi: I’m trying to remember the exact year. It was close to 2005. Maybe in late ’04, but I moved… I moved to Monterey because…
Because… she was yet again, going after the man she wanted. Moving closer to him to make sure she kept him engaged. Under normal circumstances, this wouldn’t be odd for a woman to want to be closer to her boyfriend. But with Jodi, it’s a continuing pattern of her having no life of her own – just up and moving wherever the man is – following the opportunity trail.
Willmott: Why did you move to Monterey?
Jodi: My boss changed my schedule, and I wasn’t making as much money anymore.
Willmott: How is it that you aren’t making as much money because your boss changed your schedule?
Jodi: Well, I got into construction on the hours in the morning, and at night I worked in the restaurant. So at night is where the money is at the restaurant. It is dinner. The gratuities and tips are more, and the construction job was good money as well.
Willmott: Jodi, what did you do for construction?
Jodi: Well, I was the labor foreperson.
Willmott: What does that mean?
Jodi: I helped keep the labor ready crew on task to make sure they were doing what they wanted to do.
Willmott: So was that additional income for you?
Willmott: What happened then with your change in schedule?
Jodi: He changed my schedule to the daytime, so I could no longer work the construction, and I wasn’t making the money at night. I was just working lunch. So the employment… my housing was contingent on my employment. I needed to make more money. So I moved to town to find different work.
Willmott: Did you quit Ventana at that point?
Jodi: Shortly thereafter I gave my notice once I found an apartment.
Willmott: You gave your notice and you moved to Monterey. Were you living with Mr. Brewer?
Willmott: You lived by yourself?
Willmott: What did you do in Monterey?
Jodi: I began… Daryl gave me a reference at a restaurant where he used to work. It was in Carmel. I started tending bar there, and I also began tending bar at another restaurant that I helped open in Monterey.
Willmott: Were you working two jobs at the same time you mean?
Willmott: You were still dating Mr. Brewer?
Jodi: Yes, I was.
Willmott: How long were you in Monterey?
Jodi: Oh, I don’t know, about a year maybe, roughly. I’m trying to remember. I moved from Ventana to Monterey, and eventually Daryl and I decided to move to Southern California.
Willmott: And while you were in Monterey, did you keep working those two jobs?
Jodi: Well, not for long. The schedules were conflicting so I let one job go and kept one job.
Willmott: And after the time in Monterey, does there come a time when you move…
Willmott: … you said and why is it that you move?
Jodi: Darryl’s ex-wife remarried and moved to La Quinta which is in the Palm Springs area. Southern California. So Darryl and I decided we would like to buy a house and invest. So we were unable to afford property in this area because it is very expensive. So we decided to move up to the Sacramento area, and we made an offer on a home. It got accepted and…
Willmott: Did you end up moving into Sacramento?
Jodi: We didn’t.
Willmott: It didn’t work out?
Jodi: No. Darryl decided that he would… he didn’t want to keep his son far apart from his mom because we were going to keep his son with us full-time.
Willmott: And… but did that end up happening? Did his son end up staying with you full-time?
Jodi: No. We decided to come down to the area where she was which was Palm Desert. He continued… they continued on the same schedule where she had him about roughly four days a week, and he had him three days a week or you know. Sorry.
Willmott: Okay. So at the time you guys move, are you starting to become interested in real estate?
Jodi: Yes, well I was.
Willmott: You were?
Willmott: What year is this about?
Jodi: Well, I had been interested in real estate for years but…
Willmott: You had been what?
Jodi: Interested in real estate for years, but I didn’t have any money to invest. So…
Willmott: What did you do with your interest in real estate?
Jodi: I took classes at the Monterey Peninsula College; read up on it sort of thing; followed real estate trends and prices.
Willmott: I’m sorry. What year was this about?
Jodi: The year that I took the classes would have been 2003 or 2004.
Willmott: The year that you moved to Palm Desert?
Willmott: In 2005 what was going on in real estate generally speaking at that point in time?
Jodi: It was booming at that point in time.
Willmott: And what is it that you and Daryl or Mr. Brewer were trying to do by buying a house?
Jodi: We were going to invest in a house; hang on to it for two years and flip it… not flip it in that sense. We wanted to hold on to it for two years with the hope it would increase in value and sell it and buy another house or more property.
This was a short term venture for her to make some money, and be on her merry way when the time was right. The future was looking up for her.
Willmott: Were you able to buy a house in Palm Desert?
Willmott: And distance-wise, did that keep Mr. Brewer close to his son?
Willmott: You know, besides real estate classes, did you take any other classes?
Willmott: What other classes did you take?
Jodi: I continued my Spanish education. I took college classes there as well, same place.
Jodi goes on to talk about the home they bought, which was built in the 70s and since remodeled. Jodi states she has good credit but Daryl has excellent credit so they were able to buy the house with no money down. She admits, a risky loan but they did it anyway. The bank required to see money in the bank before they could sell it to them so Jodi had $12,000 saved in the bank, but she didn’t use it towards the house. So she scored the man, the house, and got to keep her $12,000, which we know she eventually blew through because the house went into foreclosure. They were joint tenants, 50% ownership. They closed in June 2005. She took a job at California Pizza Kitchen in Palm Desert.
Willmott: So tell us about when you moved into the house. What was life like at that point?
Jodi: It was kind… it was exciting because it was my first house. There was a pool. We went shopping and got furniture. We didn’t go all out. We just had fun getting a brand new refrigerator, things like that.
Willmott: Was Mr. Brewer also working?
Jodi: He was, yes.
Willmott: Let’s talk about your mom and dad for a second. At this point in time did you have contact with them?
Jodi: Sporadically. We didn’t call each other a lot.
Willmott: Did you talk to your mom very often about your relationship with Mr. Brewer?
Jodi: Not really.
Willmott: For that matter, did you talk to her very often about your relationship with Matt McCartney?
Jodi: No, not really.
Willmott: So you said sporadic contact?
Jodi: Yeah, by the time I was in Palm Desert, we talked on the phone. I don’t remember how often, but it wasn’t really often.
Willmott: Was your mom at that point anyone you thought you could confide in?
Willmott: You didn’t have that type of relationship?
Jodi: We didn’t have that type of relationship.
Willmott: All right. And when you were in Palm Desert, what happened after your first year as far as the house is concerned?
Jodi: The house decreased in value. We weren’t… it wasn’t appreciating. The whole housing market was start to go crash at that point.
Willmott: So generally speaking, the housing market everywhere or what did you see going on?
Jodi: The housing market mostly everywhere. I’m sure there were some pockets in the country that were increasing still, but the whole housing market was coming down.
Willmott: What did that do then to your investment with Mr. Brewer?
Jodi: It made it more or less worthless.
Willmott: During that first year, did you two live together?
Willmott: Were you living this in that house?
Willmott: How often did his son come?
Jodi replies that he spent the whole summer and after that, the weekends. She describes her relationship with his son as a big sister/little brother type relationship. She was not involved in his parenting; she didn’t consider herself to be a mother figure. I guess we have that to be thankful for.
PART 4 WILL BE JODI’S NOVEMBER 3RD SECRET TESTIMONY.
Click link below to view document:
October 30. 2014 Closed Hearing Jodi Arias
October 30, 2014
Willmott: What kind of interests did you have when you were in middle school? Did you have any kinds of things that were special to you?
Willmott: Tell us what that was.
Jodi: I became interested in art very early on. I took art class at school. When I was younger, I wanted to learn Spanish. I couldn’t wait to get to high school to take Spanish. In 8th grade they offered it as an elective so I was very excited to take that so I did.
Willmott: So were those two things special to you?
Jodi: They were.
Willmott: And what kind of grades were you getting in middle school?
Jodi: Mostly As and Bs for the most part until the last semester of 8th grade.
Willmott: Was there a problem your last semester of 8th grade?
Willmott: What was the…
Jodi: There were a few problems.
Willmott: Let’s start with your family. What was your home life like at that point?
Jodi: Well, it was… it wasn’t as warm anymore. My mom… well. My little brother and sister [Joey and Angela] were born. I was close with them. My brother [Carl] was doing his own thing. We weren’t really hanging out anymore. My mom was working full-time. My dad was working full-time. I was baby sitting a lot…
Willmott: Jodi, who were you baby sitting?
Jodi: My little brother and sister. If they were home, the focus was on the babies. We weren’t really having dinner anymore or hanging out or going to the movies, things that we had done when we were little.
Willmott: Could you tell a difference in your household as far as your family dynamic was working?
Jodi: Could I tell the difference?
Willmott: Yes, from the time you were a little girl.
Jodi: Yes, I could see a difference.
Willmott: Was it getting any better… better than it was or was it getting worse?
Jodi: It wasn’t getting better. It was kind of sliding as far as just quality, general quality of our relationships we have in the family.
Willmott: What was going on as far as the discipline was concerned? Were your parents still disciplining you?
Willmott: Was your mom still hitting you?
Jodi: She was.
Willmott: And what about your dad?
Jodi: He was still aggressive. He wasn’t using the belt so much. He began to shove me into furniture and scream and yell and things like that.
Willmott: Continued screaming and yelling at you?
Willmott: Was your home something that was calm and serene or was it more chaotic?
Jodi: It was very chaotic. If no one was home, it was calm but it was chaotic.
Willmott: With you… we were talking about some of the problems by the end of 8th grade. So your family dynamic… that’s what we were just talking about… was there another problem?
Jodi: I think so, yes.
Willmott: Did you meet friends… did you have a particular friend who you think was helping you along with the problems?
Jodi: Kind of, yea. I met somebody… a girl [Patty Womack] that we were hanging out with… a few girls actually and we… she introduced me to marijuana so I started smoking that.
Willmott: And about how long did you do that for?
Jodi: Five months in 8th grade, January through May pretty much.
Willmott: And so that was the end of your semester… end of your 8th grade, right?
Jodi: Yes, right.
Willmott: Were you able… did you stop on your own?
Jodi: I did.
So the pot use was Patty’s fault. She wouldn’t have used it if somebody didn’t tell her to do it. But of course, Jodi does give herself credit for quitting on her own. Anything she’s done that was bad is a result of somebody else’s prompting or example. Anything that she’s done right is a result of her own initiative. She has no problem whatsoever bolstering herself, but is chronically critical of everybody around her.
Willmott: And did it… did you ever get arrested for that or anything like that?
Willmott: Did you ever have any kind of criminal charges or ever have to go to juvenile hall?
But we do know that her parents called the police on her when they found her growing pot on their roof. According to her parents, this was a turning point in their relationship. From that point on, at the age of 14, Jodi completely closed herself off to her family. This was her retribution for them trying to parent her.
Willmott: After 8th grade, did you move again?
Willmott: Where did you guys move?
Jodi: My entire family… the immediately family, we moved up north to Yreka.
Willmott: When you say your entire immediate family, who is that?
Jodi: My three younger siblings and my parents and myself.
Willmott: Did anyone else live in Yreka at that time, any other family?
Jodi: Yes, almost all of my mom’s immediate family; all of her siblings and her parents were either in Yreka or in the area.
Willmott: So in Yreka, did you start high school there?
Willmott: So you were starting into a new school?
Willmott: How did that go? What did you think of the high school there?
Jodi: I liked the school. It was smaller. Well, at first as a teenager I hated being in Yreka. It was a small town. There wasn’t a lot to do. My mom… my mom went to high school there, and my grandfather went to high school there. They all knew people. So a former friend of hers from high school and a daughter my age. A daughter going into her senior year and she… so I had a friend and…
Willmott: So you had some comfort. So you had somebody to kind of…
Jodi: Right, a few people.
Willmott: … to know right when you got there?
Willmott: All right. Tell me about your home life once you moved to Yreka. What was going on at home?
Jodi: At home it just seemed to slide even more. Home life was kind of dark. It was cold. We weren’t hugging. We weren’t saying I love you. We weren’t really even talking.
Willmott: What was the relationship between you and your mother at that point?
Jodi: It was quite distant at that point. It was… we didn’t get along. I love her, of course. I have always… I love her but it was painful because we just don’t mix.
Willmott: And what about in… as far as working? So when you start high school, how old are you?
Jodi: I am 15.
Willmott: And are you working at this time?
Willmott: Actually, did you start working in Santa Maria, when you lived in Santa Maria?
Jodi: I did.
Willmott: Let’s go back for a second. What did you do in Santa Maria?
Jodi: I worked at my dad’s restaurant. I was a hostess.
Willmott: And how old were you when you started working for your dad?
Jodi: I was either 13 or 14. I think I was 13.
Willmott: And did you do that the whole time? Once you started 13, did you keep working as a hostess until you moved to Yreka?
Jodi: Yes, until I moved to Yreka, yes.
Willmott: All right. And when you moved to Yreka… we were talking about your home life… what about jobs, did you have a job in Yreka?
Jodi: I did.
Willmott: What did you do?
Jodi: I also worked at my dad’s restaurant.
Willmott: And what did you do there?
Jodi: When I started working at that restaurant, I was waiting tables.
Willmott: Which restaurant was that?
Jodi: It was called Claim Jumper’s Family Restaurants.
Willmott: Is that Claim Jumper like a chain?
Jodi: No, it is not part of the chain.
Willmott: Is that something that your dad… that your family owned?
Willmott: What did you do… so you were getting paid obviously?
Willmott: What did you do with that money?
Jodi: I saved it.
Willmott: For what?
Jodi: Mostly. I bought little things here and there.
Willmott: For what?
Jodi: For a car.
Willmott: You were saving for a car?
So, first she says she is saving and then she says she is buying little things here and there, which on a hostess’ salary is probably all she could afford. But then Willmott asks her again what the money was for and she says a car.
At times throughout her trial she has tried to portray herself as a hard worker, and somebody who is building towards a future, but evidence to the contrary seems to exist. She hopped from job to job – working at many different restaurants. In my opinion, when you look at her pattern of jumping from guy to guy, job to job, and consider her history with Darryl who was almost 20 years her senior, and Travis, who was leaps and bounds beyond her in an established life, it suggests she was looking for somebody to latch onto. Somebody who could give her a life. Not just money, not just marriage, but an entire life. Meanwhile, in her reality, she kept having to crawl back to the tiny bedroom at her grandparent’s house where her failures were no doubt constantly festering in her mind. Her anger at her parents for giving her a shitty life, continuing to boil.
Willmott: In high school what kinds of interests did you have? You told us about Spanish and art in middle school. What about high school? What were you doing then?
Jodi: Those interests continued. I was interested in a lot of subjects. The only one I didn’t like was math but I liked school. I liked being in school. I liked the classroom. I liked the teachers. The students, the setting, the learning. Art and Spanish were my favorite.
Willmott: Did you have any particular teachers that made an impact on you?
Jodi: Yes, my art teacher, Mr. Rangle made an impact on me.
Willmott: How did he do that?
Jodi: He was… I think he saw talent in me and he recognized that and he praised my art.
Willmott: Was he supportive of you?
Willmott: Did he encourage you?
Jodi: Yes, he did.
Willmott: And were you getting any type of support or encouragement at home like that?
Jodi: No, not that kind at all.
Willmott: Did your parents support your love for art at this point? Did they do anything to help you?
Jodi: Not at this point, no.
Willmott: What kind of grades were you getting in the beginning of high school?
Jodi: In the beginning I was getting As and Bs mostly. It wasn’t… I wasn’t 4.0 but I was in the high 3, whatever grade average.
At this point, Willmott does a bit of a rehash on Jodi’s mom and dad and the state of their relationship. Him being nice at times, then conversely degrading her, and her mom just accepting it. Jodi says her dad was a body builder; a man with huge biceps and shoulders. There can only be one reason to describe his size and that would be to enhance his intimidation. They move back to the topic of discipline.
Willmott: And what kind of discipline was going on in your house during high school? Was your mom still hitting you with the wooden spoon?
Jodi: No, by that point she had broke it on my brother. Sometimes she would smack me with a hair brush. My brother got it with a wire hanger a few times. Sometimes she would use a belt.
Willmott: And at a certain point were you getting old enough that you were trying to stop her?
Jodi: Yeah, I was trying to… well, there was a few times when I would try to grab her hands and prevent her from hitting me.
Willmott: Was it kind of getting different from when you were smaller in the sense that you were able to try to do something about it?
Jodi: Right. I mean, it was a bad idea because there would be repercussions, but you can’t help it. When you are being attacked, you kind of grab, you know.
Jodi goes on to talk about her after school and babysitting duties. She says in her house, school was not a priority, chores were. There was no encouragement with her schoolwork.
The way she talks about her family is very indicative of a person who is constantly shifting blame. She is the perpetual victim. Her parents didn’t encourage me, therefore she amounted to nothing.
Willmott continues to harp on Jodi’s love of Spanish, and now it’s apparent where she was going with that – she shifts focus to Jodi’s Costa Rica trip.
Jodi: Well, my sophomore year in September at the beginning of the year there were fliers up advertising for an exchange program; and it was only a three-week deal in the summer. So I saw that as something I could do. So I decided I was going to do it.
Willmott: You decided you were going to do it?
Willmott: How is it that you did it?
Jodi: I just came home. My parents were vegging on the cough, and I told them I’m going to Costa Rica this next summer. They looked at me and didn’t argue.
What Jodi describes here is exactly how I envision her household – she is the one telling her parents what they’re going to do, and if they don’t, she’ll unleash her fury on them. They likely went along with a lot of things to avoid the anger and tears that would follow these episodes. How many 15 year olds do you know that walk into their house and tell their parents they’re traveling out of the country? The fact that she even did that in the first place, or felt it appropriate to dictate what she was going to do to her parents, just shows her bravado and desire for control. And when she doesn’t have it, she manipulates people to gain it.
Willmott: Did they help you at all?
Jodi: A little bit, yes, they did.
Willmott: And did you save money for that?
Willmott: Did you pay for most of the trip yourself?
Jodi: I did.
The trip to Costa Rica lasted for three weeks and was in the summer of 1997, when Jodi was 17 years old.
Willmott: Tell us then at this point is your family life getting any better?
Jodi: No, it is getting worse.
Willmott: How is it getting worse?
Jodi: My relationship with my dad was getting more hostile, I guess. He was getting a little bit… it did not increase in frequency but it increased in severity.
Willmott: Tell me what you mean by it increased in severity.
Jodi: He was yelling and angry, and I remember getting shoved into the piano. One time I was shoved into a door frame, and I hit my head on the side here and I passed out.
Willmott: Sorry. Tell me what happened when you got hit into the door frame.
Jodi: I lost consciousness briefly and I slid down the wall.
Willmott: What was going on? Were you arguing with somebody?
Jodi: I was arguing with my mom. I don’t remember why, but she started trying to hit me. I don’t remember with what. I grabbed her hands and we locked hands like this (indicating), and she was digging her acrylic nails into my skin and it hurt and my dad got involved. Got up and…
Willmott: What did your dad do? You said your dad got involved. What did he do?
Jodi: He got up from the chair he was sitting in and came over, and somehow. I guess, he separated us and… well, he didn’t throw me but he shoved me into the door frame.
Willmott: All right. And your head hit the door frame. Is that what you remember?
Willmott: And you said you lost consciousness?
Willmott: What happened when you woke up or when you…
Jodi: I’m sure it was brief because the next thing I remember was I was sitting slumped like on the floor and my mom was holding my chin up.
Willmott: What was your mom doing when she was holding your chin up?
Jodi: She was continuing to yell at me, whatever she was…
Willmott: Did you hear her say anything to your dad?
Jodi: Yeah, I did. I heard her say “Be careful, Bill”
Willmott: How did that make you feel when you get to this point of supposed discipline with your family?
Jodi: I was stunned because my dad had never done… it was reaching a level of dangerousness that it had never reached before. So it was… I don’t know. It was just odd to me because even though there had been a violent type of discipline in my house, it had never reached that kind of level.
It’s the same type of escalation she describes when she talks about Travis being an abuser. Her lies seem to be built on the same formula.
Willmott: How did it make you feel inside as far as the way your mom… were your mom and dad… did your mom get upset with your dad for doing that?
Jodi: She didn’t really seem to, no, she didn’t.
Willmott: How did that make you feel?
Jodi: Well, it drives the wedge even farther between us. I felt more distanced than ever between my parents. I just didn’t feel like we were a family. We were a family but we weren’t acting that way. There were no warm feelings between us. There was no ill-will; but like I said, there was no hugging. There was no I love you. It just became worse and more distant and more cold and just a little bit… it just felt darker in the house.
Jodi frequently shows cracks in her stories. She did the same when testifying about Travis. Her allegations of abuse come across as suggestions, not as accusations, and she certainly doesn’t appear to be a person in pain remembering deeply disturbing times. Her reactions and words don’t match. Then she backtracks. “There was no ill-will”. How can there be no ill-will when you were supposedly beaten? She has to somehow balance and explain her on-going relationships with these people who have supposedly wronged her terribly – her parents wronged her, Travis wronged her, Bobby wronged her, Matt wronged her… yet, she maintained relationships with every single one of them. Why? Because Jodi is a victim and what she has created in her head is a fantasy about them abusing, cheating and lying to her. Interestingly enough, that’s exactly what she’s done to all of them but in her mind she sees it in reverse.
What did Jodi’s parents have to say about their relationship? The only time we’ve heard from them was when the cameras were rolling anonymously at the police station. When they spoke with Detective Flores, they described a Jodi who was out of control and for no reason that was apparent to them, constantly at war with them.
Willmott: After junior… did you finish your junior year?
Jodi: Not really. I guess I finished with Ds and Fs and almost no attendance towards the end.
Willmott: Did you go back to school for your senior year?
Jodi: No. I turned 18 that summer and stayed in the work force.
Willmott: You kept working?
Willmott: Now at the time… in your junior year, were you dating anybody?
Willmott: Who was it that you were dating?
Jodi: When I first started my junior year, I was dating a guy named Victor. I broke up with him sometime in the fall, not too long.
Willmott: Let me take you back before… Victor is somebody you met in Costa Rica, right?
Willmott: Let’s talk… let’s go before that a little bit.
Willmott: Had you met somebody named Bobbie Juarez?
Willmott: How old were you when you first met him?
Willmott: Did you date him a little bit?
Jodi: Not initially we were just friends. Then eventually, like, I met him in the summer; and I think by the new year or slightly after the new year, sometime in January, we decided to be boyfriend and girlfriend.
Willmott: How old were you when that happened, when you decided to be boyfriend and girlfriend?
Jodi: I was still 15.
Willmott: Okay. How old was Mr. Juarez?
Jodi: He was 18.
Willmott: So was he in school with you?
Jodi: No. He was out of high school.
Willmott: How long did that last?
Jodi: I don’t recall but it didn’t last until the school year. It didn’t last very long.
Willmott: What happened?
Jodi: He was getting very serious and so I felt it was a little bit heavy. He was saying “I love you” and he wanted to spend forever with me and that sort of thing. So it just seemed a little bit intense and serious. So I broke up with him.
Willmott: So you broke up with him. Is that what you said?
So this evidence is supposed to illustrate that Jodi can walk away from men, she doesn’t automatically obsess over them. It was him that wanted her more and she didn’t want that, so she broke it off. No obsessing, no stalking, she just walked away.
Willmott shows the court a picture of Jodi with Bobby, as well as a family picture from when Jodi was a teenager. They revisit the Costa Rica trip and Jodi explains how she stayed with a host family and began to date their son while she was there. After the trip, they kept in touch by phone and via letters. He came to visit her in the US. But the relationship didn’t last long.
Willmott: What happened to it?
Jodi: It got to a point where… I mean, he is a nice guy. He is good looking but he was… we argued a lot. He was… he didn’t like me to… he didn’t like for me to talk to other people. How do I say? He was kind of possessive and it was just not my thing.
Willmott: And at this point you were only 17?
Willmott: And did you… obviously the relationship broke up, right?
Willmott: Who did the breaking up?
Jodi: I broke up with him.
Again here, Willmott is prompting her to demonstrate how she was able to walk away from yet another man. Ironically, she considers him to be possessive. She didn’t like that so she ended the relationship. The situation with Travis has to stand apart from her other relationships… having a pattern of clingy, obsessive relationships where she can’t let go definitely would not bode well for mitigation.
Willmott: How did you…
Jodi: Yeah, I called him and broke up with him.
Willmott: And you are kind of wincing when you say that you called to break up with him. Was that something difficult for you?
Jodi: Yeah. It just seems kind of messed up to break up with somebody on the phone. It is something I think… I knew he loved me. It was difficult. I heard him crying on the other end of the line, and I felt like at least I owed it to him to break up to his face; but we were in different countries so.
Willmott: After you broke up with Victor Arias, did you end up meeting or… had you been friends with Mr. Juarez after you broke up?
Jodi: Yeah, we reconnected and were talking for a while at that point.
She recounts that she broke up with Victor in the fall of that year and her and Bobby started dating on the first of the new year, 1998. Things continued to deteriorate at home.
Jodi: Well, things had gotten just to a point where I didn’t want to live there anymore. I began… Bobbie and I began to make plans to move in with him and his parents/grandparents.
Willmott: When you say “parents/grandparents”, what do you mean?
Jodi: They were an elderly couple. I believe they were his grandparents like biologically but he called them mom and dad.
Willmott: How did you effectuate those plans? What were you doing?
Jodi: Well, little by little I began to pack up some things that I had and whenever I was visiting. I would take them over to his house and he had a shed in the back; and we would put all my things… I had dishes and things that my dad had given me when he closed the restaurant this year, household stuff my books things like that.
So she’s secretly moving out of her house. She’s not sharing these plans with her parents, she’s gradually moving out on her own. This is in line with what her parents said to Flores; she kept her life secret and wouldn’t tell her family anything. I think this goes beyond Jodi just not liking her parents. The need to hide your life and be secretive indicates you are engaging in something (or someone) that you know to be wrong. She wanted ultimate control over everything she was doing and didn’t want her parents’ input, so she left.
Jodi: Well, at that point I stayed up all night packing and…
Willmott: Tell me what point this is.
Jodi: This is three months before I was 18.
Willmott: So you would have turned 18 in July of 1988?
Jodi: I would have turned 18 that July. So roughly April. I think it was sometime in the spring. I packed up all my things all night long, and then I picked up my cat and walked out the door about 7:00 in the morning and drove everything… drove out to his house; dropped everything out and…
Willmott: When you walked… sorry… when you walked out the door, were your parents there?
Jodi: My mom was in the kitchen.
Willmott: Did anybody say anything?
Jodi: You can see the front door from the kitchen and she saw me with my cat and she said “what are you doing?” and I said “nothing”. And I just shut the door and I took off in my car and then I called her.
Willmott: You went over to Bobbie’s?
Willmott: Did you call your mom later?
Jodi: I called her when I got there that morning just so they were aware of what I was doing at that point.
Willmott: Is that when you told them that you were moving out?
Willmott: Did they do anything to stop you?
Willmott: Did they come over to Bobbie’s house and pack your things up and make you come back?
Willmott: Did they try to convince you to come back?
Jodi: No, to come back, no.
Willmott: After you moved your stuff into Bobbie’s house… grandparent’s house, did you go to school?
Jodi: I did that day, yeah.
Again, making her parents out to be the bad guys in the situation. Jodi wasn’t loved enough so she was forced to move out and they didn’t beg her to stay.
Willmott: That is the end of your junior year or the beginning of the end of your junior year, right?
Jodi: Pretty much. Things were already getting difficult, but I think that was sort of a turning point where things really began to go south where I couldn’t salvage my grades anymore at that point.
Willmott: During this time when you lived with Bobbie, that’s when you think you were working at a couple of different places?
Willmott: And what about Bobbie, was he working?
Jodi: No. He had never had a job.
Willmott: And so where was your money going?
Jodi: Well, eventually it was going to him and I. We were living… it was kind of a 50//50 team.
Willmott: Were you helping to support him?
Jodi: Yeah, food, clothes, that sort of thing.
It sounds like Bobbie was using Jodi just like Jodi uses everybody else. The guy never worked a day in his life yet in Jodi’s delusional mind they are a 50/50 team. She describes the living conditions of the home. She says it was dirty and the front room had tar running down the walls from cigarettes. There was dusty clutter all over and the floors and carpeting were in very bad shape. In telling the court how awful Bobbie’s home was, she’s also making the statement that her home life with her parents was so deplorable that she’d rather live in a dump with a guy who has zero work ethic.
Willmott: Was there a certain point in time when you broke up?
Willmott: About when did that happen?
Jodi: I think that was in May I broke up with him. 
Willmott: What happened that you broke up with him?
Jodi: I found out he was cheating on me so I broke up with him. I found out that he was seeing someone else so I broke up with him.
Willmott: How did you find that out?
Jodi: Well, he had been talking with this woman for a while on the phone; and she was out of state; but they spoke very frequently. My understanding was that he had an interest in her previously but they were just friends now.
Willmott: Are these things he would tell you?
Jodi: Yes, uh-huh. So I saw them talk and friendship is fine. So I didn’t think much about it. I kind of had a weird feeling. We would go to the public library to check out e-mails.
Ok, here we go… If Jodi needs to explain their process of checking their messages, you can pretty much bet she hacked into his email and she’s trying to justify it here.
Willmott: Let me stop you there. So back in that day, 1998… Did you have a computer in the house?
Jodi: No. No computer, no cell phone, nothing like that.
Willmott: You had email?
Willmott: You said you had to check your email at the public library?
Willmott: Did you both go and do that?
Willmott: What happened?
Jodi: We would go to the… sometimes we would just each use a terminal or if the terminals were being used, we would each take turns using the same terminal. We would check our emails right in front of each other. It didn’t seem like he was hiding anything, and I would see emails in his inbox from her.
Willmott: Wait. You would see emails in his inbox from who?
Jodi: From this woman.
Willmott: This woman that he was supposedly just friends with?
Jodi: Yes, right. I never read any of them. He never read any in front of me. Just the way he spoke to her seemed a little bit more than just friends.
Willmott: How did you hear him speak to her?
Jodi: He was very sweet to her. He laughed a lot.
Willmott: How is it that you would hear him?
Willmott has to ask this question because she knows darn well that Jodi snoops. So one can imagine that while Bobbie was on the phone in the other room, Jodi was probably standing at the door listening.
Jodi: He would speak on the phone when I was home. It seemed like when they were on the phone, it was their own world. You could just tell, you know. He seemed kind of… tune everything out, not in a bad way. More like in a way that you could see that someone had feelings for someone, almost an in love kind of feeling.
Willmott: How did that make you feel?
Jodi: It was uncomfortable. I mean, I took his word for it at first; but it was uncomfortable.
Willmott: What happened during the time you broke up with him?
Jodi: The day we checked our emails I was headed to the Purple Plum to work and before going there, I dropped him off at his friends so he could hang out there. He didn’t have a car.
Willmott: What happens?
Jodi: Well, my feeling was very strong by that point. So I decided I wanted to check. So I went back to the library and I checked the emails that he had been writing her the ones he had sent her and they were very loving. They were more than friends clearly. So…
Willmott: What did you do?
Jodi: I printed them all out and I drove to the house we were living in. I packed up all my things; threw them in my truck. Asked my grandma if I could stay with her. She said, yes, and then I drove… I called in sick for work. I was sad. I was upset. I drove back to the friend’s house where Bobbie was and I pulled him aside so we could talk privately, and I handed him the letters and showed him.
Jodi describes Bobbie as being very shocked to see the letters. He wanted to go somewhere with her to talk but Jodi claimed to be too hurt. She says he was very sweet and loving toward the other girl and she felt he treated the other girl better than he treated her. Jodi and Bobbie had only been back together for about four or five months at this point. She says that when Bobbie discovered she had moved her belongings out, he felt really bad and apologized. But Jodi still moved out.
Jodi: He promised he would not talk to her [the other woman] anymore. There was nothing going on between them. He cared about me. He loved me. He won’t talk to her, that sort of thing. He was very apologetic, and I believed he was sincere.
Willmott: Did you accept his apology then?
Willmott: Did you believe his apologies?
Jodi: I did.
Willmott: When you moved back in, what was your relationship like after that?
Jodi: At that point it was… it wasn’t that great. I mean, it just seemed to get emotionally more chaotic. There was turmoil as far as that goes.
Willmott: Turmoil between the two of you?
Jodi: Yeah, emotionally like he as a little more upset all the time. I can’t really describe it. He would kind of play mind games.
Willmott: Was your relationship rocky after that?
Jodi: Yeah. It wasn’t super rocky but it got rocker as time went on.
Willmott: What… when you stayed with him after you came back, why did you do that?
Jodi: You mean why did I continue to stay?
Jodi: I loved him. In fact, I was in love with him; and he told me he loved me. So we were two people that love each other. We were young but we loved each other. I figured we could work through our problems that’s how I thought.
It’s the same cycle – Jodi is with somebody she loves and she claims they betray her. But she stays because she’s a good person, so we should all pity her. The intensity and chaos of this relationship, just like her others, only increases as time goes on. Yet, the blame is always pointed at the other person, it’s never her that’s done anything wrong. When every single relationship in your life involves turmoil, at some point don’t you think you need to look at yourself and wonder what part belongs to you?
PART 3 WILL CONTINUE WITH THE CONCLUSION OF THE BOBBIE SAGA
October 30, 2014. With the courtroom cleared, except for family members and jury, Jodi takes the stand. Willmott walks her through some initial questions to establish she acknowledges her killing of Travis. Jodi also acknowledges she willfully lied to cover up the crime. This is her moment with a brand new jury. Whatever she says here can, and should, have more impact than any other mitigation witness.
NEVER SAY SORRY
Willmott is guiding her to a place where Jodi has the opportunity to express her remorse about the murder of Travis. The jury has been instructed that they must accept this was a premeditated murder. So as much as Jodi wants to claim there was a domestic dispute leading to self defense that day, the jury must accept that premeditation occurred, not self defense. Is anybody really surprised that Jodi again – knowing that she is convicted – falls flat on her face when it comes to the issue of remorse?
Willmott: You were present this morning when Miss Sorenson and Mr. Alexander spoke to the Jury, weren’t you?
Willmott: And did you listen to what they had to say?
Willmott: What do you think of when you hear what they had to say?
Jodi: I think that when I hear that, if I could do… I wish so badly that I could just take that away from them, and that I could reverse what I did, and that I could take away what all these people are feeling that I have hurt including Travis.
She hems and haws badly but can’t seem to find her way to ever say the words that she wishes she never killed Travis and she’s sorry for what she did. Those words have never been spoken to this day, no matter how many times Willmott or Nurmi have led her to the edge of the water. It’s not semantics. She simply refuses to do it.
Since the time Jodi testified in 2013, up through the proceedings that are happening today, she has maintained she doesn’t remember killing Travis. That all of that happened while she was in a fog. But when you look at all of the conscious steps she took before leaving his house and then driving half way through the desert, it’s impossible that somebody in a fog would have executed cover-up tactics to the degree she did immediately upon the killing. She wasn’t rambling around confused for any length of time, she jumped into action the moment that knife hit the ground. We know this from the scene; from the timestamps on the photographs and the amount of things she manipulated within that given timeframe from murder to exit. While driving through the desert she made a deliberate, well-thought-out phone call to Travis’ phone. The man she left dead in the shower. Willmott asks her…
Willmott: Why did you do that?
Jodi: By the time I made the phone call, I realized that I had done something very bad.
How? How did she realize that with no memory?
Jodi: I couldn’t remember details, but I knew… I had a very heavy feeling, and I knew that I had done something very bad. So that phone call was the beginning of when I started to try to cover my tracks.
Nobody orchestrates a cover-up when they have no idea what they are covering up! What if he was still alive? How the hell would she explain being there, trying to kill him, and then later leaving a cheery message for him if he was still alive? Remember – this is HER version of the story. She claimed she doesn’t know if he’s dead or alive, she just has a feeling. Her cover-up tactics don’t work, and don’t make sense, unless she knows that he’s dead. She almost trips herself up when she starts to say “I knew” and then quickly changes that to “I had a very heavy feeling”. Safe to say, this penalty phase jury is also not buying the fog.
BLAME THE FAMILY
The focus in questioning shifts to Jodi’s family and childhood. But this time it’s not just about a wooden spoon. This time to gain any traction it would have to be about a whole lot more.
Willmott: Did that hurt physically?
Jodi: It hurt physically and it made me mad at her pretty bad.
Willmott: And other than being mad, did it hurt you emotionally?
Jodi: Yeah. It hurt me emotionally as well because she is my mom. She is this person in my life who has been loving and nurturing my whole life, and it wasn’t overnight; but she just began to get angrier and more sever in the way she disciplined us.
I suppose this is where Jodi justifies her lousy behavior towards her mom over the years. And then she accuses her dad of screaming at them and using a belt as punishment. She even goes so far to explain how angry she was when they had to move homes a few different times.
Willmott: Where did you go after Salinas?
Jodi: We moved to Santa Maria California.
Willmott: And in Santa Maria what grade were you going into?
Jodi: I was going into the 6th grade. Carl was going into 5th grade.
Willmott: Okay. Did you obviously have to start over at a new house… I mean, a new school?
Jodi: Yes, we did.
Willmott: And how was that going into a new school in 6th grade?
Jodi: Well when my parents first announced we were moving, it was awful. I was very… I was very sad. I had lots of friends in Salinas, and it was scary going to a new school, people I didn’t know.
This is what I don’t understand. Since when has mitigation been about a person’s entire life story? I feel like this is where Judge Stephens really fails the process. Every person on earth has a story. Mitigation is not intended to be the life and times of an accused murderer. Yes it is true that in death penalty cases the defendant is entitled to present any aspect of character they feel important but the court does have the ability to limit them based on the relevance of those aspects. I believe we have far exceeded that point considering the penalty phase has gone on longer than the initial trial.
Willmott moves on to Jodi’s father and wants her to describe his attitude towards her mom.
Willmott: What was happening between your mom and your dad at that time as far as your household is concerned? How was their relationship? What were you viewing?
Jodi: Well, my dad was always… my dad could be very complimentary toward my mom and very loving toward her but on… at the same time he could also be very critical and say demeaning things towards her.
Sound familiar? She’s creating a blueprint for her story about Travis’ abuse and why she never told anybody.
Willmott: Did you see your dad do that towards your mom?
Jodi: I did
Willmott: Did you see your dad demean her in front of you?
Jodi: Yeah, he mostly would demean her about her weight.
Willmott: Okay. Was that something that he used to pick on her about?
Jodi: He did.
Willmott: And what did you see as far as how your mom handled that? What did she do?
Can we all guess what she does? Nothing. Of course. This is where Jodi learned it. This is how Jodi provides a justification to the court for doing nothing about Travis’ supposed abuse.
Jodi: She normally just… she didn’t really say anything. She wouldn’t cower but she would just not say much.
Willmott: Are your parents still married today?
Willmott: And has your mom stayed loyal to your dad?
Jodi: Yes, they are very loyal to each other.
Willmott: Were you ever aware of your parents ever involved with drugs?
Willmott: What was that?
Jodi: When I was 4. I have a distinct memory of going into my parents’ bedroom. I didn’t know what it was at the time. There was a mirror with white powder and a razor. So I realize now that was or what it probably was and also when I was 5, my uncle… my dad’s brother got married and my dad was in the wedding. I was in the wedding. He brought cocaine to the wedding as part of the party.
Willmott: Other than that, did you have any other… did you know anything else about them using drugs?
Jodi: I have learned since that my mom smoked pot on the day I was born prior to giving birth to me. She may have done it more throughout her pregnancy, but I’m not aware of that.
Willmott: Is that something you more recently learned?
Willmott: That was something she didn’t want to share with you before?
Willmott: Is that something she didn’t share with you before?
First, do we believe Jodi about this drug use? And do we believe that her Mom just recently told her about the pot smoking during her pregnancy? Of course, our primary instinct is no. We can’t believe anything she says. But let’s play along. If we do believe that, I can imagine how the conversation unfolded. The Arias family has been silent with the press so even though they’re sitting in that courtroom we truly don’t know what’s going on in their minds. We know they won’t testify on her behalf. But her Mom’s also been sitting there every day since the beginning of trial. She may staunchly support her daughter, or, she may be sitting there out of guilt. Or maybe even just interest. If Jodi and her mom did have this conversation about the pot use, I can imagine it being Sandy distraught at her daughter’s mental state. Searching for an explanation of how she ended up the way she did. Wondering if her pot use during pregnancy created this monster. Or… is it all just more lies. Jodi building a foundation for the possibility of mental issues impairing her judgement.
PART 2 WILL CONTINUE WITH THE ESCALATION OF ISSUES IN THEIR HOME
I’ve been getting this question a lot this week. So appropriately, I’ll use the words of Jodi when I say… the simple answer is Mendacity. They’re not who we think they are.
Is there any connection whatsoever to the lying, manipulating deviant that is Jodi Arias, and the once beloved athlete, Oscar Pistorius? Jodi was found guilty of First Degree Murder. Oscar was found guilty of Culpable Homicide, even though he was charged with Murder. There is a world of difference between the two. The state in Oscar’s case has been granted leave to appeal based on an error in law committed by the Judge. The state will continue their pursuit of the original Murder charge. Jodi remains on trial in a penalty phase, waiting to see if she’ll get life or death.
Is it possible these two crimes, these two criminals, one male, one female, separated by more than 16 000 km are made of the same stuff?
Can we find any similarity between the relationships of these two couples? Is there a match between the modus operandi of both crimes and both criminals? What comparisons can we draw, and what insights do we gain from drawing them?
The Jodi Arias case provides a dark mirror for the Oscar trial, and by implication, for ourselves. The sex, and religion, the borderline personality disorder and the mendacity underlying this case are several orders of magnitude greater than in the Oscar trial. But if Oscar manipulated us with his tears, if he came with several versions of his defense; Jodi made Oscar’s performance seem like a kindergarten dress rehearsal for her own.
If you’re reading this blog, chances are you’re a true crime junkie, and if you’re a true crime junkie then there’s surely been a time when you looked at a criminal and thought – how did they end up like this? How does somebody kill? Doesn’t it make sense then, we should be aware of the commonalities that exist in their minds as well as their motives. They’re not cultivated and motivated on their own. There’s a driving force behind their actions and the more we understand them, the more we understand ourselves.
To read more about the connection between the killers… check out Audacity
And if Oscar piques your interest… try one of these.
“You are a shameful whore. Your Heavenly Father must be deeply ashamed of the whoredoms you’ve committed with that insidious man. If you let him stay in your bed one more time or even sleep under the same roof as him, you will be giving the appearance of evil. You are driving away the Holy Ghost, and you are wasting your time. You are also compromising your salvation and breaking your baptismal covenants. Of all the commandments to break, committing acts of whoredom is one of the most displeasing in the eyes of the Lord. You cannot be ashamed enough of yourself. You are filthy, and you need to repent and become clean in the eyes of God. Think about your future husband, and how you disrespect not only yourself, but him, as well as the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Is that what you want for yourself? Your future, your celebration, and your posterity is resting on your choices and actions. You are a daughter of God, and you have been a shameful example. Be thou clean, sin no more. Heavenly Father loves you and wants you to make the right choices. I know you are strong enough to choose the right. Your Father in Heaven is pulling for you. Don’t ignore the promptings you receive, because they are vital to your spiritual well-being.”